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Author Topic:   The Meaning Of The Trinity
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9538
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.0


(1)
Message 85 of 1864 (735458)
08-15-2014 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by Phat
08-15-2014 4:43 PM


Re: Re-Trinity
Phat, you could argue whatever the hell you like, but it's just waffling about nonsense - you know, the 'how many angels can fit on a pinhead' stuff. Why is what you are saying any different?
Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Phat, posted 08-15-2014 4:43 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by Jon, posted 08-17-2014 11:58 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9538
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.0


(2)
Message 91 of 1864 (735534)
08-17-2014 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by Jon
08-17-2014 11:58 AM


Re: Re-Trinity
Jon writes:
This is the Faith and Belief forum.
If you find discussions like this to be "just waffling about nonsense", then perhaps you've found yourself in the wrong place.
Are you suggesting that the faith and belief forum is where waffling about nonsense is an acceptable replacement for an argument.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Jon, posted 08-17-2014 11:58 AM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by Jon, posted 08-17-2014 11:31 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9538
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.0


(2)
Message 94 of 1864 (735563)
08-18-2014 2:04 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by Jon
08-17-2014 11:31 PM


Re: Re-Trinity
Jon writes:
I'm suggesting that people who post statements of belief in the Faith and Belief forum don't deserve to be accused of "waffling about nonsense"
They do if they they post waffle and nonsense.
and that you should not consider yourself above the question mark.
Sheesh, are your arguments reduced to nit-picking grammar now? ...... Here's a superfluous one for then next time. ? Feel free to stick it where you like. I have a suggestion if you don't know where.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by Jon, posted 08-17-2014 11:31 PM Jon has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9538
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 126 of 1864 (735809)
08-25-2014 7:04 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by NoNukes
08-25-2014 1:45 PM


Re: The Limitations Of Good And Evil Behaviors
Nonukes writes:
But more importantly, I don't see an obligation on God's part to step in and save us from ourselves. I find it completely curious that non-believers insist on such an obligation.
Because that's what was taught in religious schools and from the pulpit and as far as I'm aware, still is. Hence all this thanking god nonsense.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by NoNukes, posted 08-25-2014 1:45 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by Jon, posted 08-25-2014 8:54 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9538
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 130 of 1864 (735827)
08-26-2014 2:35 AM
Reply to: Message 127 by Jon
08-25-2014 8:54 PM


Re: The Limitations Of Good And Evil Behaviors
Jon writes:
Are there religions that conspicuously preach of God's "obligations"?
I know plenty of believers who believe God will help them, but none who believe He has to.
Christianity does it all the time. Be good and you'll go to heaven. It's a deal, if you're saying that this God is not obliged to keep his part of the bargain, that's not the message shouted from the pulpit and a lot of people are going to be very disapointed.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Jon, posted 08-25-2014 8:54 PM Jon has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by Phat, posted 08-26-2014 7:02 AM Tangle has replied
 Message 133 by NoNukes, posted 08-26-2014 9:18 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9538
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 132 of 1864 (735829)
08-26-2014 7:15 AM
Reply to: Message 131 by Phat
08-26-2014 7:02 AM


Re: The Limitations Of Good And Evil Behaviors
You can't have an objective God Phat because you have absolutely no evidence of a God's existence - you can only have a subjective belief. If it was objective, it wouldn't be a belief, it would be a fact.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by Phat, posted 08-26-2014 7:02 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9538
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 134 of 1864 (735832)
08-26-2014 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 133 by NoNukes
08-26-2014 9:18 AM


Re: The Limitations Of Good And Evil Behaviors
NoNukes writes:
Curiously enough, that's not the kind of promise people are talking about here, because they cannot point to people who should be in heaven but are not. People are complaining that bad things exist in the world.
If only those promises that God makes that can be proven to be honoured are allowed into this discussion, it's going to be an extremely short discussion.
No matter; a promise is a promise regardless of outcome - proven or otherwise, it places an obligation on the promiser.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by NoNukes, posted 08-26-2014 9:18 AM NoNukes has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9538
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.0


(1)
Message 167 of 1864 (736073)
09-01-2014 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by Jon
09-01-2014 12:09 PM


Re: The Limitations Of Good And Evil Behaviors
Jon writes:
and there seems to be no reason God should keep His promises.
Except that that makes god a liar.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by Jon, posted 09-01-2014 12:09 PM Jon has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9538
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 225 of 1864 (794396)
11-15-2016 3:01 AM
Reply to: Message 224 by Phat
11-14-2016 6:55 PM


Re: Conceiving or Imagining Without Evidence
Phat writes:
All I am trying to emphasize is that there are things bigger than our conception. People who claim to limit God to a fig newton of our imagination have essentially missed the point---that God is more than they can swallow.
This is silly. For thousands of years pretty much everyone on earth has believed in god and gods of various kinds with various features. Gods are massively easy to swallow. We really want god(s) to exist because they provide all the simple answers to the difficult questions people have about why they're here and what happens after they die.
You have it the wrong way round, the difficult thing to swallow is that we're just another animal with a short and fixed lifespan and that this is all there is for us. We have to make the most of what we have now. In other words, we have to grow up and put aside childish beliefs.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 224 by Phat, posted 11-14-2016 6:55 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9538
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 231 of 1864 (794793)
11-26-2016 4:33 AM
Reply to: Message 230 by Phat
11-26-2016 1:19 AM


Re: Four spiritual laws remix
Phat writes:
I would clarify that we are born into a predisposed tendency towards selfishness, greed, and even idolatry...and that we are unaware of God.
And we know why that is, it's because we are an evolved ape with all the base instincts of territorialism, competition, carnivourness and survival that you believe your god inflicted on the world.
What you actaully have to explain is not all this biblical nonsense but why, having made us this way, he then commands us to be different.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 230 by Phat, posted 11-26-2016 1:19 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 234 by Phat, posted 11-26-2016 8:48 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9538
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 236 of 1864 (794804)
11-26-2016 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 234 by Phat
11-26-2016 8:48 AM


Re: Four spiritual laws remix
Phat writes:
Are you asking me to explain what I believe that Gods motives are?
I'm asking you why the loving god you believe in would design in all the flaws that make us, then tell us that we need to be different. What's the reasoning behind that logic?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by Phat, posted 11-26-2016 8:48 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9538
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 240 of 1864 (794927)
12-01-2016 5:06 PM
Reply to: Message 239 by Phat
12-01-2016 4:45 PM


Re: Four spiritual laws remix
Phat writes:
It means to actually talk with Him
I've heard lots of people say this but when I ask 'what does he say?' And 'how do you know it's Him?' I never get a real answer. Can you give me one?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 239 by Phat, posted 12-01-2016 4:45 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9538
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 247 of 1864 (795230)
12-09-2016 3:25 AM
Reply to: Message 246 by Phat
12-08-2016 7:30 PM


Re: Two Way Communication
"Use the Force, Luke" Obi Wan Kenobi

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 246 by Phat, posted 12-08-2016 7:30 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 251 by Phat, posted 12-09-2016 4:57 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9538
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 250 of 1864 (795255)
12-09-2016 3:50 PM
Reply to: Message 249 by Phat
12-09-2016 2:34 PM


Re: Two Way Communication
Phat writes:
we do have an inner conscience however...
Yes, yes, yes and it's a biological trait shared by many large brained animals. It's notably lacking in individuals we call pychopaths and sociopaths.
It's got sod all to do with god unless you believe that all other instincts, emotions and feelings like hate, violence, competiveness, xenophobia, acquisitiveness etc, etc, come from him too.
Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 249 by Phat, posted 12-09-2016 2:34 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9538
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 252 of 1864 (795257)
12-09-2016 5:42 PM
Reply to: Message 251 by Phat
12-09-2016 4:57 PM


Re: Two Way Communication
Phat writes:
It would be interesting to find out how many different writers George Lucas used. Or if he wrote the whole story. And whether he knew (he did) that it was intended to be a story before he even wrote it. The analogy falls flat.
How many different people did god use to write the bible?
The bible is stuffed full of stories - creation myths, talking snakes, global floods, parting seas, pillars of salt, resurrections - good grief man, most of them even predate the bible and are present in many other traditions and cultures. We made up stories to explain the things we didn't understand. These are childish myths endlessly repeated even now in the modern day story telling of the movies.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 251 by Phat, posted 12-09-2016 4:57 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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