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Author Topic:   The Meaning Of The Trinity
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8593
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 1786 of 1864 (910327)
04-21-2023 9:56 AM
Reply to: Message 1785 by candle2
04-21-2023 9:32 AM


Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
If you cannot explain how life originated, NO, more than
that, you must prove how the first life began, or admit to
everyone on this site that you cannot.
You got us. We don't know precisely how life originated on this planet. That is a present hole in our scientific knowledge.
Feel free to hide your god in that gap since no one can find him anywhere else, but realize it's only temporary.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1785 by candle2, posted 04-21-2023 9:32 AM candle2 has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9531
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 1787 of 1864 (910330)
04-21-2023 10:04 AM
Reply to: Message 1785 by candle2
04-21-2023 9:32 AM


Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
candle2 writes:
As a hard-core atheist you cannot rely on theistic
evolution to explain the origin of life.
That's why I, and no scientist, regardless of belief, relies on the Theory of Evolution (theistic or otherwise) to explain the origin of life. The ToE has nothing to say about the origin of life. That will be on my gravestone and creationists will still be getting it wrong.
You sir, must explain in detail how the first life originated.
Must I? Why, because you demand it? What if I don't know?
I am not going to give you a pass on this.
And why should I care about that?
If you cannot explain how life originated, NO, more than
that, you must prove how the first life began, or admit to
everyone on this site that you cannot.
I am very happy to explain that I do not know how life began and what's more no one on earth does. There are some hypotheses but so far it's not understood and, what's more, it possibly never will be
What you believe is based on nothing but blind faith. It
has nothing to do with real science.
Like all creationists, you're terribly confused about pretty much everything about atheism, the ToE and what science is.
Atheism is a LACK of belief in god(s). What is it that you think I believe and how is science is involved?
Life does not come from nonlife. Life coming from
preexisting life is the only fact that is verified.Observable science verifies my assertion time and time
and time again.
And therefore what? That Christ didn't rise from the dead?
Have you considered what arguments you'd use for when replicating life IS formed from chemistry? It's only a matter of time you know.
quote:
Spontaneous Emergence of Self-Replicating Molecules Containing Nucleobases and Amino Acids
Spontaneous Emergence of Self-Replicating Molecules Containing Nucleobases and Amino Acids - PMC

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1785 by candle2, posted 04-21-2023 9:32 AM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1789 by Dredge, posted 04-21-2023 5:03 PM Tangle has replied
 Message 1791 by Dredge, posted 04-21-2023 5:24 PM Tangle has replied
 Message 1817 by candle2, posted 04-28-2023 8:15 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4501
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.7


(1)
Message 1788 of 1864 (910340)
04-21-2023 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 1784 by Dredge
04-21-2023 9:02 AM


Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
Sludge writes:
Tanypteryx writes:
gibberish
"the natural man does not accept what pertains to the Spirit of God, for to him it is foolishness, and he cannot understand it, because it is spiritually discerned." (1Cor 2:14)
Thanks for the demonstration.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1784 by Dredge, posted 04-21-2023 9:02 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1790 by Dredge, posted 04-21-2023 5:11 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 154 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1789 of 1864 (910361)
04-21-2023 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 1787 by Tangle
04-21-2023 10:04 AM


Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
Tangled writes:
Atheism is a LACK of belief in god(s).
In other words, you believe there is no god(s).
Why are you so hung up on admitting that you have beliefs? Weird.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1787 by Tangle, posted 04-21-2023 10:04 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1793 by Tangle, posted 04-21-2023 5:55 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 154 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1790 of 1864 (910365)
04-21-2023 5:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1788 by Tanypteryx
04-21-2023 11:31 AM


Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
Witty ... but sad ... even sadder than your all-insect diet and the many insect-posters adorning your bedroom walls.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1788 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-21-2023 11:31 AM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 154 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1791 of 1864 (910369)
04-21-2023 5:24 PM
Reply to: Message 1787 by Tangle
04-21-2023 10:04 AM


Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
Tangled writes:
There are some hypotheses but so far it's not understood and, what's more, it possibly never will be.
Puny science will always be clueless about abiogenesis, but you forgot to mention that the process that produced the life-form changes evident in the fossil record (often referred to as "evolution") is also unknown and can never be known. Science can't even know what happened, let alone explain how it happened.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1787 by Tangle, posted 04-21-2023 10:04 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1792 by AZPaul3, posted 04-21-2023 5:55 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 1794 by Tangle, posted 04-21-2023 6:02 PM Dredge has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8593
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 1792 of 1864 (910376)
04-21-2023 5:55 PM
Reply to: Message 1791 by Dredge
04-21-2023 5:24 PM


Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
You can go thru life deaf, dumb and blind, Altar Boy. It's OK. You're allowed.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1791 by Dredge, posted 04-21-2023 5:24 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9531
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 1793 of 1864 (910377)
04-21-2023 5:55 PM
Reply to: Message 1789 by Dredge
04-21-2023 5:03 PM


Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
Dredge writes:
In other words, you believe there is no god(s).
This is my fault for not trying to get you to understand the difference between a non-belief in god(s) and believing that there are no gods.
I wonder if I have the energy to do that? Maybe not, but what the hell.
A non-belief in god(s) - ie atheism - is a negative thing; it's a nothing, an absence. Like you have a non-belief in hundreds, maybe thousands of gods. You don't even think about Vishnu do you? It's not that you don't believe in Vishnu, you've never even considered Vishnu. You may not even have heard of Vishnu, Vishnu is a nothing to you. If asked, you'd say that of course you don't believe in Vishnu, but until that point you didn't know that you even could have a belief in Vishnu.
That's a non-belief and also an ignorance that a belief was even possible.
Atheists just have a non-belief in gods generally - even the ones they know about.
Now, I also believe that there are no gods. That's a positive thing. I can't possibly know that that is true so in that respect it's irrational. But that's what beliefs are, they're irrationally held opinion. I can give you evidence for my belief and argue my position but in the end it's a belief and therefore personally interesting but worthless as far as knowledge goes.
Why are you so hung up on admitting that you have beliefs? Weird.
I have no hang-ups admitting my beliefs; I've discussed my beliefs many times here. What is it that you think I have to admit to?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1789 by Dredge, posted 04-21-2023 5:03 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9531
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 1794 of 1864 (910378)
04-21-2023 6:02 PM
Reply to: Message 1791 by Dredge
04-21-2023 5:24 PM


Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
Dredge writes:
Puny science will always be clueless about abiogenesis,
Emotive language but sure, we may well never know how life started.
but you forgot to mention that the process that produced the life-form changes evident in the fossil record (often referred to as "evolution") is also unknown and can never be known. Science can't even know what happened, let alone explain how it happened.
Well no, we DO know the processes of evolution, that's why there is a thing called the Theory of Evolution.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1791 by Dredge, posted 04-21-2023 5:24 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1795 by Dredge, posted 04-21-2023 6:22 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 154 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1795 of 1864 (910380)
04-21-2023 6:22 PM
Reply to: Message 1794 by Tangle
04-21-2023 6:02 PM


Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
Tangle writes:
we DO know the processes of evolution, that's why there is a thing called the Theory of Evolution.
No one knows how the life-form changes evident in the fossil record happened ... and no one ever will. Stop pretending otherwise.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1794 by Tangle, posted 04-21-2023 6:02 PM Tangle has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1796 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-21-2023 6:47 PM Dredge has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4501
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.7


(1)
Message 1796 of 1864 (910381)
04-21-2023 6:47 PM
Reply to: Message 1795 by Dredge
04-21-2023 6:22 PM


Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
Sludge writes:
No one knows how the life-form changes evident in the fossil record happened ... and no one ever will.
Sure we do, reproduction and descent with modification, genetics and natural selection. That's how life works, we can watch it happening.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1795 by Dredge, posted 04-21-2023 6:22 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1797 by Dredge, posted 04-21-2023 8:24 PM Tanypteryx has replied
 Message 1800 by Dredge, posted 04-22-2023 3:23 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 154 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1797 of 1864 (910385)
04-21-2023 8:24 PM
Reply to: Message 1796 by Tanypteryx
04-21-2023 6:47 PM


Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
Insectoid writes:
Sure we do, reproduction and descent with modification, genetics and natural selection. That's how life works, we can watch it happening.
Really? How many times have you seen a mammal evolve from a reptile?
I think you might be confusing atheist folklore with facts.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1796 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-21-2023 6:47 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1798 by AZPaul3, posted 04-21-2023 8:41 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 1799 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-21-2023 8:48 PM Dredge has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8593
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 1798 of 1864 (910386)
04-21-2023 8:41 PM
Reply to: Message 1797 by Dredge
04-21-2023 8:24 PM


Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
How many times have you seen a mammal evolve from a reptile?
Never. It didn't happen.
Mammals evolved from synapsids, not sauropsids.
How many times have you seen your god make a dinosaur, or anything else?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1797 by Dredge, posted 04-21-2023 8:24 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1802 by Dredge, posted 04-22-2023 5:01 PM AZPaul3 has replied
 Message 1814 by Dredge, posted 04-24-2023 11:17 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4501
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.7


(1)
Message 1799 of 1864 (910387)
04-21-2023 8:48 PM
Reply to: Message 1797 by Dredge
04-21-2023 8:24 PM


Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
Sludge writes:
Really? How many times have you seen a mammal evolve from a reptile?
You should retire this strawman.
Sludge writes:
I think you might be confusing atheist folklore with facts.
So, that's 4 things in one sentence that you don't know shit about: confusion, atheist, folklore, or facts.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1797 by Dredge, posted 04-21-2023 8:24 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 154 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1800 of 1864 (910419)
04-22-2023 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 1796 by Tanypteryx
04-21-2023 6:47 PM


Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
Dredge writes:
No one knows how the life-form changes evident in the fossil record happened ... and no one ever will.
Tanypteryx writes:
Sure we do, reproduction and descent with modification, genetics and natural selection. That's how life works, we can watch it happening.
Since you claim to know how the life-form changes evident in the fossil record happened, please provide a step-by-step description of how insects evolved from non-insects.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1796 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-21-2023 6:47 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1801 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-22-2023 3:37 PM Dredge has replied

  
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