God, The Supernatural And the Three Laws

The Biblically supernatural is harmoniously in concordance with the three thermodynamic laws, which, in my own buzwords are as follows:Law 1. It is impossible that energy and mass can come to be, or as some would put it, be created.Law 2. it is impossible to transfer heat, from an area of lower temperature to an area of higher temperature without adding work to the system. I suppose this would somehow apply to energy.Law 3. Assuming the entropy of all elements at absolute zero can be taken as zero, then All elements above absolute zero will have a limited, positive entropy; since entropy can't be reduced to zero by limited means. No system can be reduced to absolute zero.With the above laws in mind, consider the following Biblical texts:Colosians 1:16,17 tells us that Jesus existed before all things. In, by and through him all things consist. Jesus came via the Holy Spirit, so the Spirit of Jesus and of the father, Jehovah seems to be what is being referenced to here, since we know that it was the Holy Spirit that moved the waters in Genesis one and in Psalms 104:30 we are told that God sends forth his spirit to do things in the world (and presumably in the rest of the universe) So we see, just as secularists believe something minute expanded to produce everything, the Bible says it all came from one being. By that, nothing is added to the universe by creation of each and every thing. In that sense one might even argue that it did not come to be supernaturally, perse, but pre-existed in a different form.Remember the woman who had the issue of blood and touched Jesus's garment effecting her healing? What did Jesus say? Who touched me? Why did he ask when everyone was crowded around him? Because, says the text, he felt energy/virture leave his body. See Matthew 5:30 My American Standard Bible says "power proceeding from him had gone forth."Then take a look at Luke 6:19 where we read, "And all the multitude sought to touch him, for power came forth from him and healed them all."So think about it. Doesn't the above satisfy all three of the thermodynamic laws?This message has been edited by buzsaw, 12-09-2004 09:45 PM

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The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buz

Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

Well I am amazed that this incoherent mess got approved. I would ahve thought that a major rewrite would have been in order.The second paragraph although constituting the majority of the text is illogical rambling which does nto clearly relate to teh topic.The third paragraph is vaguely related to the topic but completely lacks the details of how it relates to the laws of thermodynamics or explains why it would be at all significant if it did. (Here's a hint - the laws of thermodynamics are quantitiative therefore to know if they are satisfied we need the actual numbers. And I do not see hwo those numbers could be available).I suggest that the author should go back, think about what he wishes to say and then produce a post which properly addresses that issue.

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So think about it. Doesn't the above satisfy all three of the thermodynamic laws?

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The second law states that heat moves from hot objects to cold objects. How is this satisfied with your argument?

I don't know about satisfying the three thermodynamic laws, but it sure satisfies the three laws of bad opening posts: poorly argued, poorly written and poorly formatted.Buzz, could you please explain your perverse attraction to topics about which you know nothing?I suggest a complete rewrite of the OP following this outline:

1. Introduce your topic. This part of your post is already excellent. The existing 1st sentence is a wonderful starter.
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2. Your post should have three points, one for each of the three thermodynamic laws.
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3. Each point should begin with a brief description of that law, followed by an explanation of how the supernatural is consistent with it.
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4. Finish with a summary sentence or short paragraph.

--Percy

I figured to present Biblical text which satisfies all three laws and leave some of the thinking to the reader. Did you notice, Paul, that I said, think about it?1. I assumed everyone in town would know what the three laws state. I've posted text which, imo, satisfies all three. Go figure. If I'm mistaken, let's hear your argument. What's so difficult or obsure about that?This message has been edited by buzsaw, 12-09-2004 07:21 PM

Hi Percy. I was posting my last post before your's came up so didn't see it in time. I was trying to keep it brief enough to satisfy the guidelines. Loudmouth seems to understand my proposition. How about if we see if there's a problem with people comprehending my hypothesis by and large? If you still think revision is needed, I'll work on it.

Of course everyone knows the Three Laws, only a dolt would be unaware of them. I don't see much of a relationship between your OP and the Three Laws.And there is NOTHING in any of your examples that has ANYTHING to do with Thermodynamics.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Okay. Thermodynamics is the study of how heat moves. You know... Thermo means heat, dynamics means movement.You're talking about some things written about a mythical figure that, from context, I guess you believe in. There is some vague mention of some mysterious "power" moving back and forth but it doesn't seem to be heat. It appears to be some undefined magical force that can heal people.So, no, your little fairy tale has nothing to do with Thermodynamics.

Correct me if mistaken, but aren't energy and heat related? I've read some definitions of the 2nd law where energy is applicable. The unhealty person lacked energy. Power/energy proceeded forth from Jesus, the powerful one and entered into the weak one who lacked energy, effecting a measure of equalibrium of energy. Thus we see the 2nd law satisfied, do we not?This message has been edited by buzsaw, 12-09-2004 07:37 PM

If it weren't for your propensity for involving yourself in discussions on topics about which you know nothing, I might indeed contemplate if there's a deeper or hidden meaning in your post as you suggest to PaulK. But the post is from you, not from someone who knows what he's talking about when it comes to thermodynamics.So now we once again see the all-to-familiar pattern of you uttering total nonsense, then shifting your efforts to asserting over and over in varied forms that your post makes perfect sense.My suggestion to you is unchanged. Quit this annoying defense of the nonsensical and rewrite your post so it clearly makes your point as well as making sense. My guess is that you can't even state the three laws correctly with a book in front of you, so go ahead, prove me wrong!--Percy

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Correct me if mistaken, but aren't energy and heat related?

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They are the same thing. Energy is heat, and power is the amount of energy applied over a span of time.

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I've read some definitions of the 2nd law where energy is applicable. The unhealty person lacked energy. Power/energy proceeded forth from Jesus, the powerful one and entered into the weak one who lacked energy, effecting a measure of equalibrium of energy. Thus we see the 2nd law satisfied, do we not?

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Gotcha. After a second read it now makes sense. Thanks.

Okay Buz, let's give this some serious consideration and move through this step by step. I belive that for once you may have proved something.First are you saying that the 2^nd. Law of Thermodynamics is applied in your example?So you are proposing a Closed System,right?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Ok, come, let us all reason together.Some 20 years ago or so, senior National Geographic analyist, Rich Gore did published an article called something like "The Once and Forever Universe" In this article he stated that around 20 billion years ago a particle of space (yes he used the word space) billions of times smaller than the proton of an atom exploded to produce everything.Questions?
1. Were any of the three laws violated here?2. Were they in effect here?My hypothesis, at least has something more tangible than space to begin with, but I am beginning with an intelligent entity/god in place of the particle of space and I am giving it far more time to happen. As most long timers her are no doubt aware, I have long contended that the universe is and has been forever. So Rich's hypothesis and mine have something "forever." He has the forever particle of space and I have the forever intelligent deity.We both have everything existing emerging from something extraordinary and in fact emerging from what would be considered by many to be UNBELIEVABLY EXTRAORDINARY sources.Question.
1. Does my hypothesis violate any of the three laws?2. Does Rich Gore's hypothesis violate any of the three laws?

That's right. God is in the universe and by definition, there's nothing outside of the universe.