A question that was first presented by Socrates.

I have this vision of Jeb in an orange jump suit in Guantanamo......I find it strangely appealing

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Confused ? You will be...

Fool! They might be watching!

riVeRraT responds to me:

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Yes. I have given numerous verses from the Bible were god admits to having made mistakes.

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Poopy. You don't think the bible is correct, why would you use it to show I am wrong?

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Because you are the one claiming that it is a guide for how to live our lives. Therefore, it makes sense to analyse it. Note, I am not telling you how to live your life. I am simply pointing out that your own book does not say what you think it says.

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Unless you are admitting that parts of it are right.

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No. Just because I'm pointing out that the Bible is internally inconsistent doesn't mean I think any part of it is right. Star Trek: The Next Generation isn't real in any sense of the form, but that doesn't stop us from pointing out its internal contradictions (f'rinstance...Spot switches from male feed[/i] him." to female [when the crew undergoes devolution, Spot is pregnant.])If someone were to base their philosophy upon Spot's being male, it would be quite appropriate to point out the Spot has kittens and thus cannot be male. This does not mean that I believe in the existence of Spot, Data, the Starship Enterprise, or anything else about the series. It's a work of fiction.

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But since humans also know right from wrong, don't we also have the ability to judge god when he screws up?

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Yes we do, if he if fact actually screws up.

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Since god directly admits to mistakes (the flood), what sort of punishment are we allowed to inflict upon him?

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But god himself admits it was wrong to do that. When he sees what he did, he promises to never, ever do it again. Why would god do that if it weren't wrong?

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God himself did not write the bible. How do we know for sure thats what he thinks?

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So now you're saying the flood didn't happen, evolution is the method by which life diversified on this planet, and Jesus as described in the Bible didn't exist if at all?You're the one basing your philosophy of life upon the Bible. What is your reason for doing so?

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So what's god's punishment? And what is he going to do to make it up to all of those innocents who he mercilessly slaughtered?

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Were they innocent?

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Yes. I would say that infants are innocent. Are you seriously trying to say that a just-born baby is capable of evil?

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Were they not given a chance to follow God's ways?

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Who knows? I doubt babies are capable of understanding what "god's ways" means. And yet, they were condemned to a horrible, painful death.

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Were they maybe headed down a path of self destruction, and God saved us?

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How is it that god saved them by killing them in a cruel and brutish manner?And how can a baby be headed down any path?

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Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

riVeRraT responds to me:

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I see your point.
I think since Christ all of that has changed. Thats why he died for us.
I guess you want to be thankful for Christ, and pissed at God?

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a) You're assuming Jesus existed.b) You're assuming Jesus was a nice guy.

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Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

riVeRraT responds to me:

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So which is it? Is killing something good or bad?

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Both.

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Logically impossible. You need to make a choice. Is killing something good or bad? I can accept that it is sometimes good and sometimes bad depending upon the circumstances, but the claim that it is both good and bad is logically impossible.

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But it is a "necessary evil" and I would think that God is pretty upset when he had to kill off his creations.

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Isn't god...being GOD, after all...capable of solving problems without having to resort to killing people?

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I can tell you this, as far as terrorists are concerned, because I think I know what your going to say next.

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With all my heart I know God would straighten that mess out for us, if we collectivly believed in him as a nation, and asked him to solve the problem.

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Oh, please. Don't tell me you fell for the Robertson claim that 9/11 happened because god "lifted his shield" from the US, did you?Are you seriously saying that 9/11 happened because of gay people?

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I am a witness to this way of his working, and when I give my problems to God, he solves it EVERYTIME for me.

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Then why hasn't he solved you of me?

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Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

riVeRraT responds to me:

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I did not know that. Then why was it re-written to include the devil?

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Because people have ulterior motives.

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Monotheistic means one God, but the devil is not a god.

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You need to recheck your theology. If evil is the devil's domain as good is god's domain, then the devil is an equal to god.If the devil were not on par with god, then how does the devil do anything at all? The devil, after all, is under god's power and is incapable of tempting anybody except by the direct and express permission of god.You cannot defy the will of god, right? And yet, the devil seems to be able to do so. Thus, the devil must be an equal to god.

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Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

riVeRraT responds to me:

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I am pondering if evil is in fact from God.

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It's what the Bible says. Why would you disagree?

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But I pointed out in another post, that God did not admit to anything, man wrote down what he thought.

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What does the author of the Bible have to do with anything? If the Bible is an accurate account, then its words are to be taken as accurate. If they say that god admits to having made a mistake, then god actually made a mistake.As I asked dpardo: What is the point of god vowing to never, ever kill off the world again in a flood if it wasn't an admission that it was a mistake?

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think you are using the bible as a reference. Since you don't think the bible is accurate, then you are being hypocrytical?

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Nope. It is irrelevant what I think because I'm not the one making the claim. You are. Therefore, we must analyse your claims and your justifications to see if your sources actually say what you claim they say.Do you seriously think that the text of the Bible is dependent upon whether or not I believe in it? It either says what it says or it doesn't. What do I have to do with it?

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Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

mike the wiz responds to me:

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You said Job was perfect in another thread - yet Job repented.

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Because he thought he had done something wrong. You don't repent things that went right.

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If it repented the Lord - and Job also repented - do you still say that Job was perfect?

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Yep.God, in a supremely evil act of cruelty, tortures Job and breaks his spirit, making him think he has done something absolutely horrible in order to deserve the punishment he has received. The fact that Job didn't do anything wrong is irrelevant. He thought he did. Therefore, he repented whatever sin it was that god was so pissed off about.Are you saying that it is a good thing to kill off every living creature in the world? Then why does god vow to never, ever do it again? Is god wrong?

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As for satan - it is clear that God - as you said gives him power on earth

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You're missing the point: Satan in the book of Job is not the devil. He is an agent of god and if god is good, then Satan is good.

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Why also did satan offer Christ the kingdoms of this world?

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You are assuming that the character of "Satan" in the New Testament is the same character of "Satan" in the book of Job. We've been through this before when showing that the "serpent of old" in Revelation is of absolutely no connection to the "serpent" in Genesis. Just because the Bible mentions a "serpent" does not mean it's the same one.The "Satan" that tempts Christ is the devil. There is no such thing as the devil in the book of Job.If I write a book with two people named "John," does that necessarily mean they are the same person?

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take God's word for it

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But according to god, there is no such thing as the devil:Isaiah 45:7: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.So one has to wonder who this "Satan" was that tempted Christ....

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Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

Phatboy responds to me:

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So if all evil is from the hearts of bad men/women and if all evil can be directly traced back to god, then god must be a bad man/woman.

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So if you had a kid

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Stop right there.I don't claim to be the source of all good, all evil. Therefore, I take no responsibility for anything my child may or may not do. I'm only responsible for myself.God, on the other hand, does make that claim:Isaiah 45:7: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.Therefore, if evil is from the hearts of bad men/women and if all evil can be directly traced back to god, then god must be a bad man/woman.

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Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

riVeRraT writes:

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Who's fault is it if someone crashes a car into your house?
The car company or the person driving the car?

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Depends. If the car company claims that all actions of the car are a result of their engineering and programming, then it is definitely the car company's fault. After all, there's nothing the driver could have done...the car cannot be controlled by a mere driver.Isaiah 45:7: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

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Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

riVeRraT responds to me:

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If the fig tree is a visual aid, perhaps Jesus is, too.

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This couldn't be more true, but not the way you describe it.

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You're missing the point.If the fig tree wasn't real, then perhaps Jesus wasn't real, either.

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What Jesus showed us with the tree

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You're missing the point. If the tree wasn't real, what makes you think Jesus was? This passage is not written as a parable, is it?

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Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

mike the wiz writes:

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A = B.

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No B = No A.

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A causes B.

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Your doings (A) cause your fruit (B)

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Um, you do recall that I am a mathematician, yes?Perhaps you want to rethink this post?Hint: If A = B and A -> B, what does that say about B -> A?

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Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

When a enemy nation of Israel was wiped out, it was because they were so far gone morally as to be reprobate. God knew that they were too far gone to repent since they knew nothing of Him. (Nor did they want to) His orders to Israel were a matter of survival for Israel...kill or be killed. It would be morally the same or similar in instituting Capital punishment on a child molestor who was unrepentant and who had ruined the lives of dozens of victims. The ancient peoples whom Israel wiped out were far from even being able to change.

Phatboy writes:

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His orders to Israel were a matter of survival for Israel...kill or be killed.

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Isn't god...being GOD, after all...capable of solving problems without having to resort to physical violence?

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Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

No they are separate from the government, and maybe even controlling the government. No its not either one or the other, but part of the picture.
America is cursed by knowledge, and blessed by it. They aren't the only governement we had that started illegal wars.
You think attacking an enemy that you can't see is easy for us?