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Author Topic:   Soul
Straggler
Member (Idle past 93 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 22 of 46 (466505)
05-15-2008 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by New Cat's Eye
05-15-2008 10:59 AM


Re: Evidence and Existence
But I don't have any reason to say that Santa is real.
Maybe you don't. But there may be many who do.
If we are going to start accepting personal feelings about things as evidence for their existence then the evidence for Hindu Gods is very compelling indeed.
The evidence for the existence of Santa or the Tooth fairy also need to be taken into account.
People feel many things that are not real. Feelings are not evidence for existence.
At what point do we take the feelings of paranoid delusion as evidence for the "fact" that "they" really all are out to get us?
Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-15-2008 10:59 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-15-2008 12:25 PM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 93 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 28 of 46 (466523)
05-15-2008 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by New Cat's Eye
05-15-2008 12:25 PM


Re: Evidence and Existence
So anything anyone feels can be justified as evidence to themselves?
If I feel that you do not deserve to live do I have "evidence" that killing you is the right thing to do?
Is evidence our means of differentiating true from false? If so how can subjective feelings subject to mood and mental state possibly be described as "evidence"?
Doesn't this just amount to whatever I think is true must be true? With all the obvious flaws that this posittion necessarily has?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-15-2008 12:25 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

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 Message 32 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-15-2008 1:17 PM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 93 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 39 of 46 (466566)
05-15-2008 3:32 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by New Cat's Eye
05-15-2008 1:17 PM


Re: Evidence and Existence
It more amounts to whatever I think is true, I believe is true. If I have reasons to think something and then I believe it, isn't the belief based on reasons?
Where do "think" and "believe" seperate?
No it is based on assumption.
Without real evidence, empirical evidence, anything else is speculation and assumption. Some speculation and assumption is valid and some is not.
Assumption of the ordinary and mundane is ultimately based on repeated empirical experience.
Assumption of the extraordinary and spectacular (omniscient omnipotent beings, everlasting etheral souls etc. etc.) frankly borders on the delusional.
Apart from anything else you are misusing the word evidence.
Evidence is how we differentiate between that which is true and that which is not. If a form of evidence can equally support two mutually exclusive conclusions either, or neither, of which may be true then it is no sort of evidence at all.
You "feel" that you have a soul. (Lets assume) I "feel" that you have no soul. The "evidence" is equal and opposite. It is not evidence. It is assumption with regard to subjective feeling on both counts.
The use of the word "evidence" is being used to legitimise things which do not warrant that claim. Evidence is not just something that can be used to suggest both the truth and falsehood (plus anything in-between) of any iven claim.
You should see the "Probability of God's Existence" thread regarding this topic as this one and that are converging on the same areas.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-15-2008 1:17 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-15-2008 4:07 PM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 93 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 44 of 46 (466574)
05-15-2008 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by New Cat's Eye
05-15-2008 3:48 PM


Re: Evidence and Existence
But to confidently believe that it does not exist because you are assuming that your lack of evidevce is enough is no more sensible than my position.
No No No. How many things do you "confidently believe" do not exist because there is no evidence for them at all?
Thor, Zeus, Santa, Tooth Fairy etc. etc. etc. Are these assumptions about their inexistence equally valid with assumptions that they do exist?
There is nothing but a lack of evidence to base any conclusions or assumptions on in each of these cases.
Reliable assumptions are borne of repeated everyday and very empirical experience.
When you start claiming that assumptions of things that are extraordinary are equally valid with those that are mundane you are intentionally conflating and confusing words like "evidence", "belief", "assumption" and "knowledge" in order to justify and somehow legitimise your own evidenceless beliefs.
I know I exist
I can reliably assume that you exist.
There is no basis on which to reliably assume that a soul exists.
Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

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 Message 40 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-15-2008 3:48 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 93 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 45 of 46 (466575)
05-15-2008 4:21 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by New Cat's Eye
05-15-2008 4:07 PM


Re: Evidence and Existence
In a similiar place where hypothesis and conclusion seperate
Conclusions are borne of empiricall tested and verified hypotheses.
How do you go about distinguishing "think" and "believe"....?
For things that we have little evidence to investigate, we might believe what we think from a gut feeling or something as a way of trusting ourselves in what we think.
In the absence of any reliable evidence we make assumptions based on relevant experience, personal prejudice and philosophical bias.
Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

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