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Author Topic:   Conversations with God
ringo
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Posts: 19303
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 5.0


(1)
Message 8 of 382 (377555)
01-17-2007 2:02 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Phat
01-17-2007 1:45 PM


Re: Verification through experience
Phat writes:

God is nor something (or more properly someOne ) to be proven.

Doesn't it seem that most of those who do try to "prove God" - e.g. YECs (fundies in general) - are lacking in "inner joy"? Don't they come off as angry, arrogant, sour on life?

Maybe "conversations with God" should emphasize listening rather than talking. Maybe then they'd hear Him telling them to smarten up.


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Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Taz, posted 01-17-2007 2:04 PM ringo has responded
 Message 10 by Brian, posted 01-17-2007 2:13 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19303
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 11 of 382 (377560)
01-17-2007 2:19 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Taz
01-17-2007 2:04 PM


Re: Verification through experience
Tazmanian Devil writes:

What, listen to silence?

There is more wisdom in the silence than in the babble of the throng, grasshopper. :)


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Taz, posted 01-17-2007 2:04 PM Taz has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Taz, posted 01-17-2007 2:31 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19303
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 12 of 382 (377562)
01-17-2007 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Brian
01-17-2007 2:13 PM


Re: Verification through experience
Brian writes:

... isn't is such a waste of life believing in God because you feel good during meditation? A rush of chemicals and hey presto Yahweh is real!

I agree. The "inner joy" doesn't depend on an exteranl cause. Get it whatever way you can - by meditation, by flying a kite, by teaching ;) - but don't spoil it by trying to put a face on it. Listen to the silence but don't talk to it.


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ringo
Member
Posts: 19303
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 15 of 382 (377580)
01-17-2007 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Taz
01-17-2007 2:31 PM


Re: Verification through experience
Tazmanian Devil writes:

Ever read The Chosen?

No, but I've read Potok's My Name is Asher Lev and The Book of Lights.

Your point is?


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Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member
Posts: 19303
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 17 of 382 (377599)
01-17-2007 4:31 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Phat
01-17-2007 4:20 PM


Re: Verification through experience
Phat writes:

And if you feel an unction that it is speaking to you, do you accept it on faith or do you go to a shrink and get medication?

If you feel a pain in your stomach, do you interpret it as an "unction that is speaking to you"? Do you accept it on faith or do you go to a doctor and get medication?

We happen to understand our digestive system better than we understand our psyche. Does that mean we should medicate one and put a spooky interpretation on the other?

... even in my quiet moments, my mind hums in the background with a myriad of thoughts, emotions, memories, and sensations.

If you tune out the static, the rest is silence.

(Pop quiz: whose last words are those? :) )


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ringo
Member
Posts: 19303
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 5.0


(2)
Message 29 of 382 (709989)
10-31-2013 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Theodoric
10-31-2013 9:45 AM


Re: Prayer: Listening, Talking, or Both?
Theodoric writes:

Seems he was good at pithy sayings.


Thum of uth like pithy thayingth. (You can't believe how long I've been saving that line.)

But I like this one:

quote:
To say that “prayer changes things” is not as close to the truth as saying, “Prayer changes me and then I change things.”

Even Noah had to build his own ark.

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ringo
Member
Posts: 19303
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 52 of 382 (710907)
11-12-2013 12:29 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Phat
11-10-2013 2:14 AM


Re: Prayer: Listening, Talking, or Both?
Phat writes:

There are far too many sane people that believe for me to dismiss it all as wishful thinking...


I think of "insanity" as the inability to function in society. In a society where everybody wears their pajamas on the street and yells at parking meters, the man in the gray flannel suit is insane.

If there are believers who are sane it's only because our society is flexible enough to accomodate them.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Phat, posted 11-10-2013 2:14 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Phat, posted 11-13-2013 6:01 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19303
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 5.0


(1)
Message 59 of 382 (710961)
11-13-2013 10:38 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by Phat
11-13-2013 6:01 AM


Re: Belief and Sanity
Phat writes:

I guess that my point is that belief does not get the respect that it deserves these days.


The problem is that it's believers who don't respect other believers. Unbelievers tend to treat all beliefs equally. Believers often don't.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Phat, posted 11-13-2013 6:01 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 342 by Phat, posted 04-28-2021 12:11 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19303
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 5.0


(1)
Message 63 of 382 (711153)
11-15-2013 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by Phat
11-15-2013 8:57 AM


Re: Belief and Sanity
Phat writes:

One of the most important lessons that any human can learn is humility and obedience...


If you're humble, how do you know who to obey?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Phat, posted 11-15-2013 8:57 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by Phat, posted 11-16-2013 3:56 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19303
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 75 of 382 (711328)
11-17-2013 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by Phat
11-16-2013 3:56 PM


Re: Belief and Sanity
Phat writes:

ringo writes:

If you're humble, how do you know who to obey?

Hint: Its not the same guy that you "obey" when you are proud and haughty.

You didn't answer the question. How do you know who to obey? Is God talking to you personally, Mr. Humble? I don't see how humility and obedience go together.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Phat, posted 11-16-2013 3:56 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by Phat, posted 11-28-2013 7:08 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19303
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 80 of 382 (712227)
11-29-2013 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by Phat
11-28-2013 7:08 PM


Re: Belief and Sanity
Phat writes:

ringo writes:

I don't see how humility and obedience go together.


Jesus is a perfect example.

Jesus claimed to be the son of God - not very humble. He went to the cross reluctantly - not very obedient.

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ringo
Member
Posts: 19303
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 82 of 382 (826000)
12-20-2017 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Phat
12-20-2017 9:28 AM


Re: Doubt is healthy...keep doubting
Phat writes:

Are you saying that for a believer to be strongest is when they dont question and doubt?


Believers often mistake "strong belief" for not bothering to think it through. They demonstrate "strong belief" by:

1. Saying something off the top of their head.
2. Calling people "itrrational" when they're proven wrong.
3. Screaming insults.
4. Running away.

That may be "strong belief' but who wants it?


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ringo
Member
Posts: 19303
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 94 of 382 (884490)
02-22-2021 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 89 by Phat
02-21-2021 2:05 PM


Re: Charismatic Chaos Revisited
Phat writes:

professing yourselves wise, you are but fools.


Romans 22. That applies to everybody, though, doesn't it? Three fingers pointing back at yourself.

It isn't up to YOU to declare who is wise and who is foolish. Especially when your posting history is full of so much foolishness.


"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Phat, posted 02-21-2021 2:05 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19303
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 113 of 382 (884605)
02-26-2021 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by Phat
02-25-2021 6:32 AM


Re: Charismatic Chaos Revisited
Phat writes:

I see ringo as a man who once attended church (perhaps in what he saw as a cell of ignorance) and being dissatisfied with the whole idea of trusting God and other fellow believers, went outside the cell in search of more rational truth/data.


Y'see, people think you're making up your own God because you make up your own beliefs about me too - despite the fact that I have told you repeatedly that your beliefs about me are not true.

I didn't leave the church because any dissatisfaction. Write that down so you don't forget it.

Phat writes:

I don't trust humans alone as capable of providing the final answer.


Neither do I - but we're all we got.

I rejected creationism, for example, because I went looking for evidence to prove it - and there isn't any. The same applies to gods - in particular, YOUR made-up god.

I would be comfortable enough inside the church because so many of the people I know are in there. Facing reality is harsh. It is not a pleasant escape.

Phat writes:

I joke to him that now, rather than marrying the One Who comes for his Bride, ringo will stand at the altar forever if necessary awaiting evidence that the communion is even necessary.


I would definitely want evidence. Who knows if she even used her real picture on the Internet?

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Phat, posted 02-25-2021 6:32 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by Phat, posted 02-27-2021 1:54 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19303
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 116 of 382 (884661)
03-01-2021 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 115 by Phat
02-27-2021 1:54 PM


Re: Charismatic Chaos Revisited
Phat writes:

ringo writes:

I didn't leave the church because any dissatisfaction. Write that down so you don't forget it.


You were dissatisfied with God, or as you may have seen it, "The God Concept."

Read what I wrote. I was not dissatisfied. It was like standing on a street corner and realizing, "I have no reason to be here." You don't have to be dissatisfied to move on.

Phat writes:

For whatever reasons, you were unable to relate to or have communion with God.


Nobody is. Some people are able to delude themselves into thinking they are able.

Phat writes:

To you, He became a manufactured myth rather than a living reality.


He was never a "living reality" to me or to anybody else. That's a delusion that many people grow out of, like belief in Santa Claus.

Phat writes:

Mine and everyone elses "made-up god" either exists or does not exist. You concluded that He did not.


Same with leprechauns.

Phat writes:

You elevated yourself and your own critical thinking process above the thinking/believing process of the rest of us.


I chose the process that works best. You know that critical thinking works best - you don't drive down the street blindfolded, praying to God to protect you. You only elevate belief above critical thinking in areas where you can't be proven wrong.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by Phat, posted 02-27-2021 1:54 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by Phat, posted 03-01-2021 3:04 PM ringo has responded

  
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