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Author Topic:   Conversations with God
robertleva
Member (Idle past 52 days)
Posts: 35
From: Seminole
Joined: 04-23-2021


Message 331 of 382 (885848)
04-28-2021 8:21 AM
Reply to: Message 330 by jar
04-28-2021 7:15 AM


Re: Why Stick Around? My Belief
quote:
Christianity is NOT about getting saved, it's about making this life better for all.
The Salvation Christianity is the work of Satan.

This is false gospel or just a fundamental lack of knowledge of what Christianity is. Either way, no. Christianity is salvation through grace of faith. Jesus said "No one gets to the Father except through me." This is the only path. We must accept Christ as our savior. There is nothing else, no other requirements, just faith in Christ and we are saved.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 330 by jar, posted 04-28-2021 7:15 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 332 by jar, posted 04-28-2021 8:30 AM robertleva has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33412
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 332 of 382 (885849)
04-28-2021 8:30 AM
Reply to: Message 331 by robertleva
04-28-2021 8:21 AM


Re: Why Stick Around? My Belief
Yawn.

Try actually reading the Bible and not just cherry picking pieces parts out of context.

In Matthew 25 ALL of the Goats were those who followed Jesus while all of he Sheep were those who did not even know Jesus.

Sorry child. I Cor 13:11. It's time for you to stop thinking as a child and speaking as a child and to become an adult.


My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 331 by robertleva, posted 04-28-2021 8:21 AM robertleva has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 333 by dwise1, posted 04-28-2021 9:31 AM jar has not yet responded
 Message 338 by Phat, posted 04-28-2021 11:44 AM jar has responded

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 4702
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 333 of 382 (885865)
04-28-2021 9:31 AM
Reply to: Message 332 by jar
04-28-2021 8:30 AM


Re: Why Stick Around? My Belief
Sorry child. I Cor 13:11. It's time for you to stop thinking as a child and speaking as a child and to become an adult.

A couple decades ago, a rabbi co-wrote a book, Stupid Ways, Smart Ways, To Think About God. Basically, many adults have very childish ideas about "God". Why? Because they had developed those ideas in childhood and have never revisited those ideas to make them more mature.

That is one of the reasons why I urge believers to think about and question their beliefs. So they can replace their childish ideas with a more mature approach to their faith.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 332 by jar, posted 04-28-2021 8:30 AM jar has not yet responded

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 5790
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.7


(2)
Message 334 of 382 (885868)
04-28-2021 10:14 AM
Reply to: Message 329 by robertleva
04-28-2021 7:08 AM


Re: Why Stick Around? My Belief
One must learn to differentiate between the glory of almighty God, ...

That's mostly something that happens in your imagination.

, ... and the evil that has been done in His name.

And that is all to evident in the world.

Jesus said "No one gets to the Father except through me."

Jesus often spoke in metaphors.

Christianity is all about taking those metaphors as if they were intended literally, and taking the ideas intended as literal as if they were metaphors.


Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 329 by robertleva, posted 04-28-2021 7:08 AM robertleva has not yet responded

  
robertleva
Member (Idle past 52 days)
Posts: 35
From: Seminole
Joined: 04-23-2021


Message 335 of 382 (885869)
04-28-2021 10:16 AM


It's not complicated. Faith in Christ is all we need. Simple for some, or maybe very difficult depending on who you are. Ultimately you must sacrifice that human pride and accept that only through Christ can we be saved. For me this was easy, once I really understood the stakes.

I will not lie and say that my faith has always been here and always been so strong. Like many on this forum I was once mired in the same Naturalism / evolution doctrine that had been preached to me since I was a child. I learned it all and pushed to the edges of known science in physics. Thankfully, God saw me through all that garbage I was living in and pulled me out of the trash pile. This is one of the many things I thank the Lord for.


Replies to this message:
 Message 336 by nwr, posted 04-28-2021 10:49 AM robertleva has responded

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 5790
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.7


(2)
Message 336 of 382 (885875)
04-28-2021 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 335 by robertleva
04-28-2021 10:16 AM


Faith in Christ is all we need.

But what does that mean?

Jesus said that we should love our neighbor. For me, faith meant that we should follow those teachings even when we were doubtful of their value.

But, for most Christians, faith means believing is a ridiculous made up story.

Like many on this forum I was once mired in the same Naturalism / evolution doctrine that had been preached to me since I was a child.

Oh, good. Perhaps you can tell me what is this naturalism doctrine. I am frequently accused of naturalism, but I have never been able to work out what it even means. An actual presentation of the doctrine would be helpful.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 335 by robertleva, posted 04-28-2021 10:16 AM robertleva has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 337 by robertleva, posted 04-28-2021 11:39 AM nwr has acknowledged this reply
 Message 339 by robertleva, posted 04-28-2021 11:51 AM nwr has responded

  
robertleva
Member (Idle past 52 days)
Posts: 35
From: Seminole
Joined: 04-23-2021


Message 337 of 382 (885878)
04-28-2021 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 336 by nwr
04-28-2021 10:49 AM


quote:
But what does that mean?
Jesus said that we should love our neighbor. For me, faith meant that we should follow those teachings even when we were doubtful of their value.

But, for most Christians, faith means believing is a ridiculous made up story.


I'm very thankful for the chance to reply to this. Just accept Christ. You need not take any other step, though many do choose to go farther. All I ask is that you simply accept Christ as your only means of salvation and eternal life.

The rest of it can surely ADD to that faith, and yes I would highly recommend more, but the only absolute requirement is simply an acceptance of Christ in your life. My faith teaches that if you do this, you will be redeemed upon death and saved.

Seems like a pretty good deal huh? It is, but it wasn't always. We live now under the terms of the "New Covenant". All we need to do now is accept Christ. The "old Covenant" was a much more complicated thing, and its only purpose was to ultimately bring about the New Covenant.

The harsh nature of the Old Covenant is where folks abuse the scriptures to serve their own purposes regarding gay folks and other perceived injustices of the old testament times. All you need to understand is that Jesus came and destroyed all of that, and all we need to do now is have faith in Christ because we live under new terms.

Under these new terms everyone and anyone is called! Gay / straight / anything / Muslim / Jew/ Hindi EVERYONE IS WELCOME!

Just accept Christ and join the redeemed in eternal life my brother!

Edited by robertleva, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 336 by nwr, posted 04-28-2021 10:49 AM nwr has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15596
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 338 of 382 (885879)
04-28-2021 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 332 by jar
04-28-2021 8:30 AM


Re: Why Stick Around? My Belief
jar writes:

In Matthew 25 ALL of the Goats were those who followed Jesus while all of the Sheep were those who did not even know Jesus.

Is there any support for your claim or is that just how you personally interpret it?

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 332 by jar, posted 04-28-2021 8:30 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 344 by jar, posted 04-28-2021 1:17 PM Phat has responded

  
robertleva
Member (Idle past 52 days)
Posts: 35
From: Seminole
Joined: 04-23-2021


Message 339 of 382 (885880)
04-28-2021 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 336 by nwr
04-28-2021 10:49 AM


quote:
Oh, good. Perhaps you can tell me what is this naturalism doctrine. I am frequently accused of naturalism, but I have never been able to work out what it even means. An actual presentation of the doctrine would be helpful

I won't engage in any sort of debate on this but Naturalism is the belief, taught in elementary school science texts, that all things in the universe have a "natural" explanation. Even when we encounter something that seems supernatural we are to automatically assume it is simply a natural explanation we currently do not know.

It is faith you see, faith in man, or mankind's inevitability. Take your pick. That faith though has a much, older heritage you see. It's the original lie: Live for yourself, you are not accountable God.

It's the enemy's lie; Dressed up in palatable scientific terms, with about 7 billion rabid zealots ready to go to war for it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 336 by nwr, posted 04-28-2021 10:49 AM nwr has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 340 by nwr, posted 04-28-2021 12:02 PM robertleva has responded
 Message 341 by Tangle, posted 04-28-2021 12:07 PM robertleva has not yet responded
 Message 346 by Pressie, posted 04-28-2021 2:19 PM robertleva has not yet responded

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 5790
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.7


(1)
Message 340 of 382 (885882)
04-28-2021 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 339 by robertleva
04-28-2021 11:51 AM


Naturalism is the belief, taught in elementary school science texts, that all things in the universe have a "natural" explanation.

I don't think I was ever taught that.

Yes, we should look for a natural explanation. But there's no guarantee that we will always find one.


Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 339 by robertleva, posted 04-28-2021 11:51 AM robertleva has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 345 by robertleva, posted 04-28-2021 1:58 PM nwr has acknowledged this reply

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8200
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.5


(2)
Message 341 of 382 (885883)
04-28-2021 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 339 by robertleva
04-28-2021 11:51 AM


robert writes:

I won't engage in any sort of debate on this

Then I suggest you get back to your pulpit, this is a debate site, we don't listen to sermons. If you can't support your claims in open discussion, this isn't the place for you.

btw, I'm half way through your Dawkins/Lennox "debate" - which again, isn't a debate - and so far can see no reason at all for your claim that Dawkins was "destroyed". In fact all I see is the same old stuff being rolled out that we've all heard a thousand times here. Absolutely nothing new there at all.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 339 by robertleva, posted 04-28-2021 11:51 AM robertleva has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15596
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 342 of 382 (885885)
04-28-2021 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by ringo
11-13-2013 10:38 AM


Re: Belief and Sanity
ringo in 2013 writes:

Unbelievers tend to treat all beliefs equally. Believers often don't.

And for good reason. Do you treat a Pit Bull whom you encounter the same way you would a puppy or a small friendly dog? Do you treat a known thief the same way you treat a friend?
I'm not saying that Jesus never commanded us to do anything other than try. I'm just pointing out the silliness and illogic of relativism. Years ago when I got saved, it was not due to wanting to be accepted into a popular group. And it was not Chutulu or the Spaghetti Monster that I sensed speaking to me inwardly.

It was not Allah. Nor the Apologist. Nor a Saskatchewan Contrarian. I suppose you could argue that it was simply myself...Freuds Super Ego, perhaps. Perhaps my epiphany was finding myself rather than Jesus. But to this day I pray to Him. Sometimes I resist it. I believe that He knows my inner thoughts anyway, so perhaps in my times of resistence/rebellion, He is still providing a teachable moment. There are many imitators and One Original as far as I believe.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by ringo, posted 11-13-2013 10:38 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 350 by ringo, posted 04-28-2021 3:14 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4042
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 343 of 382 (885889)
04-28-2021 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by AZPaul3
02-26-2021 1:41 PM


Re: Charismatic Chaos Revisited
AZPaul3 writes:

Seems to me that the important decision elements in marriage are how you two plan to negotiate the future path of life together and that involves finances, homes, personalities and dozens of other factors that reach far beyond the foundational fact that you have emotional feelings for each other.

This is a big part of why the divorcer rate is so high.

People do have "emotional feelings for each other" while you like it or not.

Even if you can "negotiate the future path of life together and that involves finances, homes, personalities and dozens of other factors..." it doesn't matter.
If you spend all your time and energy in a relationship where you do not have emotional feelings for each other... you'll be unhappy.
Unhappy people get divorces, eventually... which cost a lot of money, and end up wasting all that "negotiation of future life..." stuff. Usually decades of wasted investment.

Marriage is an incredibly long-term decision that needs to take both sides into account.
It needs to consider all the evidence-based items you list, but if it ignores the "wishy-washy feelings" - then it will be a failure.

AZPaul3In fact-based methods no one is saying you ignore the emotions in the same way your wishy-washy feelings-based method says ignore the facts.

This is exactly what I said:

quote:
Again. All decisions are fact-based.

History is only on the side for evidence-based decision making for things like "identifying reality."
History is on the side of feelings-based decisions for things like "finding your spouse."


The idea is you need to identify if the wishy-washy feelings are going to be important or not.

If you're deciding on a fixed vs. variable rate mortgage - you should be ignoring your wishy-washy feelings and work out the math for your situation.
(What I've described as an "evidence-based" decision.)

If you're deciding on a spouse - you should take into account your wishy-washy feelings along with all the other facts and give them a much higher priority than normal... or else you'll end up very, very un-happy, regardless of how well you "negotiate the future path together."
(What I've described as a "feelings-based" decision.)

You seem to argue with me... and then agree with me.

This is a sign that you think I'm saying something that I'm actually not... and you're arguing against that made-up-thing-in-your-head.
The other sign is me constantly telling you that that I'm not saying what you keep insisting I'm wrong about.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by AZPaul3, posted 02-26-2021 1:41 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 365 by AZPaul3, posted 04-28-2021 10:13 PM Stile has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33412
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 344 of 382 (885890)
04-28-2021 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 338 by Phat
04-28-2021 11:44 AM


Re: Why Stick Around? My Belief
Yes Phat, there is support for my claim. It is the text itself and what is actually written and I have posted that for you to try to read numerous times.

The text actually says what is actually written and not what the lying apologists say it should say.

Read what is actually written Phat.


My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 338 by Phat, posted 04-28-2021 11:44 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 348 by Phat, posted 04-28-2021 2:59 PM jar has responded

  
robertleva
Member (Idle past 52 days)
Posts: 35
From: Seminole
Joined: 04-23-2021


Message 345 of 382 (885892)
04-28-2021 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 340 by nwr
04-28-2021 12:02 PM


quote:
Yes, we should look for a natural explanation. But there's no guarantee that we will always find one

This is the very foundation of faith brother. I am glad to hear it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 340 by nwr, posted 04-28-2021 12:02 PM nwr has acknowledged this reply

  
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