|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total) |
| |
ChatGPT | |
Total: 916,889 Year: 4,146/9,624 Month: 1,017/974 Week: 344/286 Day: 65/40 Hour: 1/5 |
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Conversations with God | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Pressie Member Posts: 2103 From: Pretoria, SA Joined:
|
robertleva writes: This, ladies and gentlemen, is one of the main reasons I'm an atheist. After actually studying the Bible. Lots of religious people always tell untruths. About everything. Evidence provided by robertleva. They always tell untruths.
I won't engage in any sort of debate on this but Naturalism is the belief, taught in elementary school science texts, that all things in the universe have a "natural" explanation. Even when we encounter something that seems supernatural we are to automatically assume it is simply a natural explanation we currently do not know.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
robertleva writes:
Did I say there was something I don't like about religion?
I am on your side most likely in most of what you do not like about religion. robertleva writes:
What negativity? When have I ever been anything but nice to you?
I ask you to set aside all this negativity that consumes your posts for a second... robertleva writes:
I lost my faith in Christ for the same reason I lost my faith in Santa. It had nothing to do with evils done in the name of Santa. Is it possible that the evils done in the name of God have stopped you from giving believers a fair chance here on this forum? I always give believers a fair chance. I just don't swallow their hooks, lines and sinkers. When they start seeing demons in me, they've blown their fair chance."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
The text actually says what is actually written and not what the lying apologists say it should say. You've never successfully explained why it is that *all* apologists lie or that your disdain for them does not influence your own beliefs. You have failed to explain why so many people have it wrong while you and a few others, many of whom are also evidence based critics who do not believe in the supernatural but champion the cause of works based humanism---somehow have it right."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Pressie writes: Hold your horses, Pressie. Im trying to unpack what you just said. This, ladies and gentlemen, is one of the main reasons I'm an atheist. After actually studying the Bible. Lots of religious people always tell untruths. About everything. Evidence provided by robertleva. They always tell untruths. I have never been a word for word literalist, though I have to a degree adopted thought for thought literalness. I am well aware that there are Biblical Contradictions, though the reason they never disturbed nor bothered me was because i was a believer. Im never looking for a way to disprove god or Jesus. I am only looking to challenge myself. Unlike many of you, I have not lost my faith--perhaps because it is more important to me than it was to you. And I try not to tell untruths or lie to myself. Please keep me accountable. As for Robert, i'm not sure why you are criticizing him."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
As a matter of fact, I do: Where I used to live there was a pit bull living across the alley. One day when I was coming home, he was out of his yard. As I approached, he was growling at me and barking his head off. I told him calmly (on the outside) that I wasn't going to hurt him. And I didn't. Do you treat a Pit Bull whom you encounter the same way you would a puppy or a small friendly dog? I talk to squirrels the same way.
Phat writes:
You're really not, though. You're expressing an opinion, not explaining why your opinion makes any sense.
I'm just pointing out the silliness and illogic of relativism. Phat writes:
How do you know that? And it was not Chutulu or the Spaghetti Monster that I sensed speaking to me inwardly. If you hear voices in your head, obviously you're going to associate them with the "God" that you've heard about since birth. But how do you explain the other people who have the same experience as you but associate it with a different God that they have heard about from birth? Your God is not alone in the race. He isn't even ahead."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
|
Phat writes:
Isn't that like challenging yourself to eat a chocolate fudge sundae? Im never looking for a way to disprove god or Jesus. I am only looking to challenge myself."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Did I say there was something I don't like about religion? Not really. You are an evidence-based relativist. You have room at the table for every little God and god that the blessed humans have ever thought up. If there was something you didnt like about the religion you say you came from (and out of) it would be the claim to exclusivity. Which kinda goes hand in hand as to why you left it.
ringo, to Robert writes: You are usually quite nice. The God whom you left still uses you. You will of course deny that. My God will always trump your evidence in my thinking. It is your incomplete and prematurely deduced evidence that led you astray. Why on earth would I want that? When have I ever been anything but nice to you?ringo writes: Well it was you who let all of the other ones in. And I'll bet that none of them are ahead.
Your God is not alone in the race. He isn't even ahead.ringo writes: Keyword: External. So if a guy like you believes in no external entities, he must either have no belief or believe in himself.
The next step is to realize that that "spirit" has nothing to do with any external entity. ringo writes: Chance dies not exist. When you became an evidence based thinker/believer, you stacked your deck with probability (measurable and finite) versus chance (hypothetical and infinitely mysterious). If you ever went with chance over God, you would lose the bet. I always give believers a fair chance. I just don't swallow their hooks, lines and sinkers. When they start seeing demons in me, they've blown their fair chance."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I'll admit that my Jesus goes easier on me than one you would give me which you found in that dusty old book!
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Pressie Member Posts: 2103 From: Pretoria, SA Joined: |
Phat writes: Because he told untruths about the basics. He keeps on telling untruths, even after being shown where and when he told untruths. That's what I experienced with virtually all religious people.
...As for Robert, i'm not sure why you are criticizing him.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I wont defend them (religious people) We do tend to try and move goalposts in an attempt to defend our faith. Whether this is intentional or not, I cannot say. I for one seek to be as honest as I can possibly be while still preserving my beliefs. Maybe thats our collective issue. Critical thinkers are taught to attempt to falsify. It scares us. Makes us feel weak. Indecisive.
I was always taught to stand for something or I would fall for anything. I need to find the courage to stand and having done all..to stand. Without lying to myself. Its like juggling chainsaws. "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
No. It was the emptiness.
If there was something you didnt like about the religion you say you came from (and out of) it would be the claim to exclusivity. Which kinda goes hand in hand as to why you left it. Phat writes:
You'd want it if you cared about the truth. If you were honest, you would SHOW the incompleteness and prematurity instead of just making false accusations.
It is your incomplete and prematurely deduced evidence that led you astray. Why on earth would I want that? Phat writes:
Duh. I have no belief.
So if a guy like you believes in no external entities, he must either have no belief or believe in himself. Phat writes:
Of course it does. Chance dies not exist."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: You've never successfully explained why it is that *all* apologists lie or that your disdain for them does not influence your own beliefs. Then that is simply yet another example that demonstrates you are at best incapable of reading or incapable of honesty. I and others have been asking now for over a decade for evidence of an apologist who does not lie.
Phat writes: You have failed to explain why so many people have it wrong while you and a few others, many of whom are also evidence based critics who do not believe in the supernatural but champion the cause of works based humanism---somehow have it right. And you keep on providing evidence of why you and so many others get it wrong. You and so many others show no signs of being able to read or comprehend what is written or even of how to think.My Website: My Website
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Yes, the Jesus you made up tells you to avoid the straight and narrow. I'll admit that my Jesus goes easier on me than one you would give me which you found in that dusty old book!"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
ringo writes: Not really. He just does not want to give me more than I can handle at the moment. He knows that if He told me to give everything up I would run from Him. But He wont let me win, either. Yes, the Jesus you made up tells you to avoid the straight and narrow. Often He uses you to keep me humble. I wish He would let me create my own Jesus instead of having to obey Him. So tell me why Christianity was so empty.Was it the religion, the history, or the people? Edited by Phat, : No reason given."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
robertleva Member (Idle past 1092 days) Posts: 35 From: Seminole Joined:
|
Phat if you want to discuss anything feel free to message me. Taking a step back and looking at the state the thread is in, full of vitriol and toxicity, and I realize I've been used. I initially intended to try and only speak to the OP and or faithful folk but I failed at that.
Maybe some hidden good came from me posting in this thread I am not sure but all I can really do is apologize for sowing more seeds of discord at this point. What ever sins I have committed here or anywhere else for I repent them in the of Jesus. I love you all as brothers and sisters and I apologize for robbing any of you of any peace or joy. God bless.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024