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Author Topic:   Conversations with God
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2092
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


(4)
Message 346 of 382 (885893)
04-28-2021 2:19 PM
Reply to: Message 339 by robertleva
04-28-2021 11:51 AM


robertleva writes:

I won't engage in any sort of debate on this but Naturalism is the belief, taught in elementary school science texts, that all things in the universe have a "natural" explanation. Even when we encounter something that seems supernatural we are to automatically assume it is simply a natural explanation we currently do not know.

This, ladies and gentlemen, is one of the main reasons I'm an atheist. After actually studying the Bible. Lots of religious people always tell untruths. About everything. Evidence provided by robertleva. They always tell untruths.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 339 by robertleva, posted 04-28-2021 11:51 AM robertleva has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 349 by Phat, posted 04-28-2021 3:09 PM Pressie has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19226
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 347 of 382 (885894)
04-28-2021 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 329 by robertleva
04-28-2021 7:08 AM


Re: Why Stick Around? My Belief
robertleva writes:

I am on your side most likely in most of what you do not like about religion.


Did I say there was something I don't like about religion?

robertleva writes:

I ask you to set aside all this negativity that consumes your posts for a second...


What negativity? When have I ever been anything but nice to you?

robertleva writes:

Is it possible that the evils done in the name of God have stopped you from giving believers a fair chance here on this forum?


I lost my faith in Christ for the same reason I lost my faith in Santa. It had nothing to do with evils done in the name of Santa.

I always give believers a fair chance. I just don't swallow their hooks, lines and sinkers. When they start seeing demons in me, they've blown their fair chance.


"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 329 by robertleva, posted 04-28-2021 7:08 AM robertleva has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 352 by Phat, posted 04-28-2021 3:23 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15596
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 348 of 382 (885895)
04-28-2021 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 344 by jar
04-28-2021 1:17 PM


Re: Why Stick Around? My Belief
The text actually says what is actually written and not what the lying apologists say it should say.
You've never successfully explained why it is that *all* apologists lie or that your disdain for them does not influence your own beliefs. You have failed to explain why so many people have it wrong while you and a few others, many of whom are also evidence based critics who do not believe in the supernatural but champion the cause of works based humanism---somehow have it right.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 344 by jar, posted 04-28-2021 1:17 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 357 by jar, posted 04-28-2021 3:43 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15596
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 349 of 382 (885896)
04-28-2021 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 346 by Pressie
04-28-2021 2:19 PM


Why Pressie Became An Atheist
Pressie writes:

This, ladies and gentlemen, is one of the main reasons I'm an atheist. After actually studying the Bible. Lots of religious people always tell untruths. About everything. Evidence provided by robertleva. They always tell untruths.

Hold your horses, Pressie. Im trying to unpack what you just said.

I have never been a word for word literalist, though I have to a degree adopted thought for thought literalness. I am well aware that there are Biblical Contradictions, though the reason they never disturbed nor bothered me was because i was a believer. Im never looking for a way to disprove god or Jesus. I am only looking to challenge myself. Unlike many of you, I have not lost my faith--perhaps because it is more important to me than it was to you. And I try not to tell untruths or lie to myself. Please keep me accountable. As for Robert, i'm not sure why you are criticizing him.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 346 by Pressie, posted 04-28-2021 2:19 PM Pressie has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 351 by ringo, posted 04-28-2021 3:19 PM Phat has responded
 Message 354 by Pressie, posted 04-28-2021 3:30 PM Phat has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19226
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 350 of 382 (885897)
04-28-2021 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 342 by Phat
04-28-2021 12:11 PM


Re: Belief and Sanity
Phat writes:

Do you treat a Pit Bull whom you encounter the same way you would a puppy or a small friendly dog?


As a matter of fact, I do: Where I used to live there was a pit bull living across the alley. One day when I was coming home, he was out of his yard. As I approached, he was growling at me and barking his head off. I told him calmly (on the outside) that I wasn't going to hurt him. And I didn't.

I talk to squirrels the same way.

Phat writes:

I'm just pointing out the silliness and illogic of relativism.


You're really not, though. You're expressing an opinion, not explaining why your opinion makes any sense.

Phat writes:

And it was not Chutulu or the Spaghetti Monster that I sensed speaking to me inwardly.


How do you know that?

If you hear voices in your head, obviously you're going to associate them with the "God" that you've heard about since birth. But how do you explain the other people who have the same experience as you but associate it with a different God that they have heard about from birth?

Your God is not alone in the race. He isn't even ahead.


"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 342 by Phat, posted 04-28-2021 12:11 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19226
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 351 of 382 (885898)
04-28-2021 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 349 by Phat
04-28-2021 3:09 PM


Re: Why Pressie Became An Atheist
Phat writes:

Im never looking for a way to disprove god or Jesus. I am only looking to challenge myself.


Isn't that like challenging yourself to eat a chocolate fudge sundae?

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 349 by Phat, posted 04-28-2021 3:09 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 353 by Phat, posted 04-28-2021 3:26 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15596
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 352 of 382 (885899)
04-28-2021 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 347 by ringo
04-28-2021 2:56 PM


Re: Why Stick Around? My Belief
Did I say there was something I don't like about religion?
Not really. You are an evidence-based relativist. You have room at the table for every little God and god that the blessed humans have ever thought up. If there was something you didnt like about the religion you say you came from (and out of) it would be the claim to exclusivity. Which kinda goes hand in hand as to why you left it.
ringo, to Robert writes:

When have I ever been anything but nice to you?

You are usually quite nice. The God whom you left still uses you. You will of course deny that. My God will always trump your evidence in my thinking. It is your incomplete and prematurely deduced evidence that led you astray. Why on earth would I want that?
ringo writes:

Your God is not alone in the race. He isn't even ahead.

Well it was you who let all of the other ones in. And I'll bet that none of them are ahead.
ringo writes:

The next step is to realize that that "spirit" has nothing to do with any external entity.

Keyword: External. So if a guy like you believes in no external entities, he must either have no belief or believe in himself.

ringo writes:

I always give believers a fair chance. I just don't swallow their hooks, lines and sinkers. When they start seeing demons in me, they've blown their fair chance.

Chance dies not exist. When you became an evidence based thinker/believer, you stacked your deck with probability (measurable and finite) versus chance (hypothetical and infinitely mysterious). If you ever went with chance over God, you would lose the bet.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 347 by ringo, posted 04-28-2021 2:56 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 356 by ringo, posted 04-28-2021 3:42 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15596
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 353 of 382 (885900)
04-28-2021 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 351 by ringo
04-28-2021 3:19 PM


Re: Why Pressie Became An Atheist
I'll admit that my Jesus goes easier on me than one you would give me which you found in that dusty old book!

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 351 by ringo, posted 04-28-2021 3:19 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 358 by ringo, posted 04-28-2021 3:44 PM Phat has responded

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2092
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 354 of 382 (885902)
04-28-2021 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 349 by Phat
04-28-2021 3:09 PM


Re: Why Pressie Became An Atheist
Phat writes:

...As for Robert, i'm not sure why you are criticizing him.

Because he told untruths about the basics. He keeps on telling untruths, even after being shown where and when he told untruths. That's what I experienced with virtually all religious people.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 349 by Phat, posted 04-28-2021 3:09 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 355 by Phat, posted 04-28-2021 3:40 PM Pressie has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15596
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 355 of 382 (885903)
04-28-2021 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 354 by Pressie
04-28-2021 3:30 PM


Re: Why Pressie Became An Atheist
I wont defend them (religious people) We do tend to try and move goalposts in an attempt to defend our faith. Whether this is intentional or not, I cannot say. I for one seek to be as honest as I can possibly be while still preserving my beliefs. Maybe thats our collective issue. Critical thinkers are taught to attempt to falsify. It scares us. Makes us feel weak. Indecisive.

I was always taught to stand for something or I would fall for anything.

I need to find the courage to stand and having done all..to stand.

Without lying to myself.

Its like juggling chainsaws.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 354 by Pressie, posted 04-28-2021 3:30 PM Pressie has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19226
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 356 of 382 (885904)
04-28-2021 3:42 PM
Reply to: Message 352 by Phat
04-28-2021 3:23 PM


Re: Why Stick Around? My Belief
Phat writes:

If there was something you didnt like about the religion you say you came from (and out of) it would be the claim to exclusivity. Which kinda goes hand in hand as to why you left it.


No. It was the emptiness.

Phat writes:

It is your incomplete and prematurely deduced evidence that led you astray. Why on earth would I want that?


You'd want it if you cared about the truth. If you were honest, you would SHOW the incompleteness and prematurity instead of just making false accusations.

Phat writes:

So if a guy like you believes in no external entities, he must either have no belief or believe in himself.


Duh. I have no belief.

Phat writes:

Chance dies not exist.


Of course it does.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 352 by Phat, posted 04-28-2021 3:23 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33412
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 357 of 382 (885905)
04-28-2021 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 348 by Phat
04-28-2021 2:59 PM


Re: Why Stick Around? My Belief
Phat writes:

You've never successfully explained why it is that *all* apologists lie or that your disdain for them does not influence your own beliefs.

Then that is simply yet another example that demonstrates you are at best incapable of reading or incapable of honesty.

I and others have been asking now for over a decade for evidence of an apologist who does not lie.

Phat writes:

You have failed to explain why so many people have it wrong while you and a few others, many of whom are also evidence based critics who do not believe in the supernatural but champion the cause of works based humanism---somehow have it right.

And you keep on providing evidence of why you and so many others get it wrong. You and so many others show no signs of being able to read or comprehend what is written or even of how to think.


My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 348 by Phat, posted 04-28-2021 2:59 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19226
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 358 of 382 (885906)
04-28-2021 3:44 PM
Reply to: Message 353 by Phat
04-28-2021 3:26 PM


Re: Why Pressie Became An Atheist
Phat writes:

I'll admit that my Jesus goes easier on me than one you would give me which you found in that dusty old book!


Yes, the Jesus you made up tells you to avoid the straight and narrow.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 353 by Phat, posted 04-28-2021 3:26 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 359 by Phat, posted 04-28-2021 3:49 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15596
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 359 of 382 (885907)
04-28-2021 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 358 by ringo
04-28-2021 3:44 PM


Re: Why Pressie Became An Atheist
ringo writes:

Yes, the Jesus you made up tells you to avoid the straight and narrow.

Not really. He just does not want to give me more than I can handle at the moment. He knows that if He told me to give everything up I would run from Him. But He wont let me win, either.

Often He uses you to keep me humble. I wish He would let me create my own Jesus instead of having to obey Him. So tell me why Christianity was so empty.
Was it the religion, the history, or the people?

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 358 by ringo, posted 04-28-2021 3:44 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 361 by ringo, posted 04-28-2021 4:12 PM Phat has responded

  
robertleva
Member (Idle past 52 days)
Posts: 35
From: Seminole
Joined: 04-23-2021


(1)
Message 360 of 382 (885908)
04-28-2021 3:50 PM


Phat if you want to discuss anything feel free to message me. Taking a step back and looking at the state the thread is in, full of vitriol and toxicity, and I realize I've been used. I initially intended to try and only speak to the OP and or faithful folk but I failed at that.

Maybe some hidden good came from me posting in this thread I am not sure but all I can really do is apologize for sowing more seeds of discord at this point. What ever sins I have committed here or anywhere else for I repent them in the of Jesus. I love you all as brothers and sisters and I apologize for robbing any of you of any peace or joy. God bless.


Replies to this message:
 Message 362 by Pressie, posted 04-28-2021 4:14 PM robertleva has not yet responded
 Message 363 by Tangle, posted 04-28-2021 4:49 PM robertleva has not yet responded

  
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