Omnipotence and the Existence of Evil

You saw them "in person", as in, they impromptu bent a spoon less than 5 feet in front of you, with a spoon they hadn't themselves provided? Or, "in person" as in, you went to see a staged performance of spoon-bending?I've seen people float, I've seen women cut in half and restored, I've seen entire mountain ranges disappear. It's not evidence of some kind of human control over reality but simply stagecraft and illusion.That still doesn't answer why I can't bend spoons, for instance. If reality is as mutable as you say, why can't I hire somebody to alter reality for me? Or learn to do it myself?The thing I like about science and technology is, I don't have to believe it works for it to work. No matter how convinced I may be that a 1000-ton (whatever a 747 wieghs, these days) can't possibly fly, it does. How do you figure? (That 10% is an urban legend, btw.) CAT scans of blood use in the brain confirm that, while we don't use all of our brain, all of the time, over the course of a given day all parts of our brains are utilized.What property of firing neurons do you feel could cause spoons to bend?I confess to being shocked when apparently reasonable people (as you appear to be reasonable) express belief in human supernatural powers. I mean, belief in a distant, untestable god is one thing - but doesn't it faze you to know that every single person who has claimed supernatural powers totally and utterly fails to demonstrate them under controlled laboratory conditions?

Yes, I have seen two people concentrate and bend spoons (not part of any show). I knew a man who was dying from AIDS and believed that he would get well, and he did. I saw the before and after medical reports--Positive for AIDS and then he tested negative--(he tested again several times for people who did not believe it).I don't believe any of the so-called "Supernatural" things that happen are actually supernatural. I believe there are things entirely within our power that we haven't even begun to grasp. When a person who is on his death-bed is suddenly & "miraculously" healed--I don't believe it's supernatural. I believe that ability exists in all of us--I just believe that a few people now and then actually "connect" with it and are able to "manifest" it. But because we rarely see something like that happen and don't understand it, we call it "Supernatural" or a "miracle." I believe the mind & emotions are much more powerful than the body.I think you could bend spoons. I believe there are certain "laws" we have created in this reality, but because I believe it's all an illusion, and I also believe we are also capable of "manipulating" those laws when we grasp the illusion. Just like in the Matrix--they all obviously have lesser or more advanced "capabilities" when they enter the Matrix, and only "the one" (as they say) has fully evolved & can basically do anything. (A comparison to a Jesus or Buddha character). I don't believe there are a lot of extremely evolved people on this planet right now. We wouldn't have the wars & the things going on at the moment if there were.I don't know why people fail those tests under controlled situations, but I do believe that they would never submit themselves to those tests in the first place if they hadn't been honestly capable of doing some things & believed they could still do so in a test. (Who would humiliate himself like that?) I know a woman psychic that I talk to regularly who lives in Colorado, while I live in North Carolina. I can tell her somebody's name (somebody she's never met), and based on the name, she can tell me all about that person's personality, problems--intimate, detailed information that she has no way of knowing. (There's no way I can doubt her--she's done it over and over and over--amazing things that she couldn't possibly know). But--if I were to ask her what color shirt the person is wearing at the moment, she could not tell me. And I know if she were being tested under controlled conditions, and shirt color, etc. was the type of questions being asked, she would fail. Her ability has to do with being able to pick up a person's (or animals) "vibrations"--(which is what all psychic people do), but there are some very practical things they can't pick up. I had a cat that was very depressed one time, and I asked her about it. (I gave her no information other than the cat's name). She told me that my cat was grieving for another cat that had just died. (Which was true--I had an older cat that had just been put to sleep). But--she could not have told me what I feed my cat for dinner if I asked. I think people fail those tests because of the nature of the tests and lack of understanding about what a psychic is actually picking up on, etc.& how it works.

With spoons that weren't theirs? The reason I ask is, they sell these spoons that are made of a gallium alloy, which has a melting point so low that just the heat of your hand can soften it. (Did the spoons bend up or down?) So, you just kind of hold it by the handle in one place, act like you're "concentrating", and the heat of your hand makes the spoon bend.Have they ever bent anything that wasn't a spoon? Like, a kitchen knife? Or a paper clip? If not, why just spoons?See, these are all very appropriate questions to ask, so long as you're unwilling to shut your brain off whenever somebody does something weird. Professional stage magicians make millions because they're really good at making things happen that seem impossible - but it's not psychic powers, its just stagecraft. I'm sure John Edwards (who talks to dead people on the Sci Fi channel)
honestly believes that he's talking to dead people - but to any skeptic who watches, it's obvious he's just a really good cold-reader.It's amazing what you can pretend to know about people you've never met or even spoken to, if you're actually talking to them. You watch their reactions and listen to changes in their voice. You pick up subtle clues about how they carry themselves, or talk - everything. Well, this we agree on, anyway. What kind of information? General personality statements? "He's a young man, impulsive, having trouble in school..." or specific, detailed (complete with names) information about their situation and history? I mean, does she say "he's had a fight with his girlfriend" or "He's fighting right now with his girlfriend Cindy about who has to walk their dog Sparkles?"Here's the test I would submit your psychic friend to. I honestly don't think she's a fraud; I'm sure she believes she has some psychic power - it's likely she's a really good cold-reader without even knowing that's what she's doing. I'd sit with her, pass her a name on a card, and have her write out a letter about what was going on in that named person's life, to whatever specificity she felt comfortable with. Then I'd call him/her on the phone and compare notes.Is that a test you think she could perform well on? I suspect that, without auditory cues from the proctor, her powers would be very inaccurate indeed.

Everyone's a skeptic There are a plenty of people out there who are total frauds when it comes to this kind of thing. The problem is, you will always be a skeptic about it until you yourself are able to bend spoons (or any other cutlery for that matter) completely unaided.I've always wondered, why do people need to bend spoons in the first place?Anyway, I can only tell you what I know from my own experiences - some things are bullshit, but others are very, very real.The Rock Hound

I tend to agree. I once saw a guy make stacks of large (20-30 lbs), jagged stones on a beach - stacks as high as he was tall. He stacked them sharp end to sharp end, the long way. It was incredible. Many people refused to believe he wasn't using glue or something, but after watching him make a stack (and seeing them fall over later in the day, after the tide came in), it was obvious - he was just really, really good at balancing rocks.Cretainly, some people, through practice, are really good at making something that almost impossible to do look easy. Bending spoons, however, by mere concentration is simply impossible.

I don't know how sharp those rocks were, but it is surprising easy to balance rocks in a fairly impressive way. I tried it and got some pretty good results right off.

This was pretty impressive - they were more like the shape of footballs or almonds, balanced pointy end to pointy end. And in a stack about six feet tall.he had a scrapbook of his other stacks; it was pretty impresive. I guess it was a performance art thing for him. He'd go to a beach and make stacks all day and then they'd be knocked down by the tide... interesting in a post-modernist, ephermeral ennui sort of way...

hi all,I have a drawer full of bent spoons....unfortunately they are the result of being to lazy to look for the ice cream scoop at 2am ))------------------
Asgara"An unexamined life is not worth living" Socrates via Plato

Ice cream has psychic powers?!!That I would believe. It can make me do things against my will.

/sighyep Ned, me too unfortunately....ice cream and chocolate have way too much power over my will ------------------
Asgara"An unexamined life is not worth living" Socrates via Plato