homosexuality and the Bible

Hey hey crash, and everyone else here. You mentioned:

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You're really digging, here, when it's simpler to concede the truth - homosexuality has a very strong genetic component, as strong as any other hereditary behavior, like alcoholism.

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Out of curiosity, do you think that those naturally predisposed to alcoholism should live a life characterized by the disorder? Should they accept their genetic component and become dependent on alcohol because it feels good, generally leading to "physical and psychological harm and impaired social and vocational functioning?" Heh, I hate it when people quote dictionaries. I apologize, but the definition phrases it better than I would.I'm sure we can all agree that the behavior of an alcoholic is not beneficial, notably to himself but also to loved ones and to society at large. I have offered as much support as I know how to my alcoholic friends over the years in order for them to get the help they need to beat the addiction. Much of the time the addiction is never gone but only suppressed by constant support, such as that provided by AA, which is certainly a life-long endeavor. In the severe cases (which always include the "alcohol gene"), I have rarely known someone who can quit cold turkey and never face a strong addiction again. In fact, in my experience, the few times this is possible are accompanied by acceptance of God into one's life (heh, much like our great president).My only point is that even though we accept the fact that alcoholism is genetic, should we condone it as a beneficial lifestyle? I don't believe so. How are programs like Exodus International different than Alcoholics Anonymous?I imagine most would answer that the homosexual lifestyle doesn't hurt anyone. That is certainly up for debate, and would be answered with endless tirades involving disease, preying, and the unweaving of moral fabrics. Hehe, I won't go there, so I just pose my question about accepting genetic dispositions "as is."Take care,
Jake

The untraversable rift in this sort of argument is that the notion of harm is in the eye of the beholder. Your moral fabric may be inclusive of homosexuality, but this is not so for many. Like I mentioned, I don't want to get into this side of the argument because I think we all know the points that will be covered on both sides. I know many people, Christian and likewise, who would argue vehemently that homosexuality wrecks lives, causes harm, and leads to much of the same stuff that results from alcoholism. I won't argue that here, though, because this is where that rift comes in . Thus, I'll leave it at this.One thing to note is the Exodus International website. A grain of salt may be in order, but there are some testimonials where "ex-homosexuals" claim homosexuality ruined their lives until they found Christ. I know most of you will scoff at these accounts, and I'm not using the organization to argue anything, but I was a little surprised with some stuff I came across.Cheers,
Jakeedit: ’ ’ ’ – ’’ ‘ 10 ’ ‘’ ’’’ ’ is the websire if you have some time to kill.[This message has been edited by Jake22, 08-21-2003]

Interesting info, thanks. Where could I read up on Exodus International's founders, poster boy, etc?

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Yeah, yeah, there are lots of "testimonials" about the so-called "ex-gays," but long term study of those who go through "reparative therapy" find that they don't actually change their sexual orientation. Instead, they wind up sublimating it at best. When asked if they still find people of the same sex arousing, the answer is yes. The thoughts and feelings never go away.

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I personally find it hard to believe that homosexuality is a choice (although more power to you, messengah). My mind is too indoctrinated with economics, so the rational actors assumption is beaten into my way of thinking. One may argue that there's a certain taboo allure to sexual perversions, and that may be, but I don't readily accept either explanation until more conclusive (in my mind) work is done. For now I lean toward non-choice explanations for the most part, notably that of attributing homosexuality to developmental experiences in the early years of life.Assuming homosexuality is genetic, it is not surprising that homosexuals oftentimes don't change their sexual orientation with therapy. The fact that some do become attracted to the opposite sex and lead happy marriages is impressive/baffling yet certainly not the norm. That fact aside, it's not much different than alcoholsm in some respects. There are alcoholics who no longer face much of a temptation/addiction to drink, but for some (notably those with the gene) the urge is never gone, despite years and years of being sober. That's why AA and other such programs are lifelong endeavors, to offer support in spite of temptation.Many people who believe the homosexual lifestyle to be sinful would consider Exodus International a success if it helps people refrain from homosexual conduct despite temptations. Getting rid of temptation itself is not the issue for many, just like AA.Okay, back to work. Thanks again for that info, Rrhain. Hopefully I can read up on that EI stuff.Jake