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Member (Idle past 1966 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
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Author | Topic: What is: The Gospel According To You? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18333 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Iano writes: OK. Post 243. And don't quote Jar. Explain what your point is in 20 or so words.
1. Give me the post number of the point you want me to explain. I'm making (or endeavouring to make) various points. I'll explain it in 20 words or less.Iano writes:
Valid just don't do it for me.Websters writes: validadj 1 : having legal force 2 : founded on truth or fact : capable of being justified or defended : sound <~ reasons> validity \ve-li-de-te\ n validly adv So what does it for you?
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iano Member (Idle past 1966 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
20 words or less.
Science is based on the belief that objective reality exists. Its all only belief. We can only rationalise and reason. Oops, was going to bed so took a guess Phat. Wrong one. So I'll add a couple more words to the above to make it applicable to msg 243 Jar's Gospel doesn't. It wriggles. This message has been edited by iano, 13-Apr-2006 01:50 AM
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Phat Member Posts: 18333 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Iano writes: Science is based on the belief that objective reality exists. Its all only belief. We can only rationalise and reason. OK...was that so difficult? sheesh! All these long posts and all for this? So if I understand you correctly, you are suggesting that every theory and idea in life is but a belief? So if I say that Jesus is alive, I cannot claim that as a fact? see Im cool with that! It is not up to me to convince anyone! but why do you like to challenge jar? Are you drawing his verbal skills out of him into a new and higher art form?
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Brian Member (Idle past 4985 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
What is the boiling point of water at sea level?
Brian.
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3953 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
Micah 6:8 He has shown you, O man, what is good; And what does the Lord require of you But to do justly, To love mercy, And to walk humbly with your God? Jeremiah 29: 11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the Lord, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope. 12 Then you will call upon Me and go and pray to Me, and I will listen to you. 13 And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart. 14 I will be found by you, says the Lord... Isaiah 6: 8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying:"Whom shall I send, And who will go for Us?" Then I said, "Here am I! Send me." Matthew 6: 25 "Therefore I say to you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink; nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food and the body more than clothing? 26 Look at the birds of the air, for they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? 27 Which of you by worrying can add one cubit to his stature?28 "So why do you worry about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin; 29 and yet I say to you that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30 Now if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will He not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31 "Therefore do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' 32 For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. 33 But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble. Luke 22: 32 But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail... Song 8:7 Many waters cannot quench love,Nor can the floods drown it. this is actually a selection of verses i sent to a friend of mine who is about to go into mission work. the duality of justice and mercy is an interesting quality. i think it refers to being just with those undeserving of evil and be merciful to those who do. this is carried into the turning of the cheek. generally, be kind and gracious to all. be comforted that what you seek is promised to you. do not fret about what you need or what lies in store for you. volunteerism is important. volunteer willingly and speedily to assist those around you. give of yourself whether asked or demanded or not requested at all. be aware of your surroundings that you may be of aid to another before that aid is even known to be needed. support each other in kind thoughts and know that your brothers are supporting you in their thoughts and prayers. even this, that the lord supports you in his prayers. the lord is love. whether he be omnibenevolent or not, the very idea of the gospel is that love is indeed the very bonds between electrons. the fabric of the universe is love. (i know i don't tend to mysticism here; blame the wine.) and love never fails. love is never defeated. this knowledge gives way to hope and hope is the most powerful force there is. hope can give life to the dying and dreams to the broken.
1 corinthians 13: 1Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body *to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing. 4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. 8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known. 13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love. and faith can move mountains. those of contrite (dictionary.com: Feeling regret and sorrow for one's sins or offenses; penitent.) heart --immaterial of their confession--are the ones god seeks. those who know their limits and know their strengths and do not confuse the two. those who know that there is something greater... be it love or light or universe or kharma or god. those who accept the frailty of their own existence and yet accept honesty when given it. those who accept the world as good and honest and beautiful as a child might. these are the ones the lord loves and these are those with whome he will surround himself for eternity.the lord created mankind as his companion. he will not surround himself with companions who are divisive or judgemental or histerical... rather those who seek peace, forgiveness, and gentleness. for now we see as though through a glass, darkly... Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed; those who are cold and are not clothed. Dwight D Eisenhower
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3953 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
at standard temperature and pressure, the boiling point of water (and the proper conditions for a pot of tea) is 212 degrees fahrenheit, 100 degrees celcius, and --most importantly-- 373.15 degrees kelvin.
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Brian Member (Idle past 4985 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
Is this always the case, or have there been occasions when the boiling point of water at standard temperature and pressure is not 373.15 degrees Kelvin?
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iano Member (Idle past 1966 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
OK...was that so difficult? sheesh! All these long posts and all for this? I'm an evangelist. There are all sorts of points to be made.
So if I understand you correctly, you are suggesting that every theory and idea in life is but a belief? You are not understanding correctly. Belief in objective reality is the boundary within which every theory and idea is enclosed. There is nothing which is not at its root based on a belief. Not science not faith. Hence, my objection to Admin Asgara
So if I say that Jesus is alive, I cannot claim that as a fact? From the above point you should see that every fact has at its root a belief. Objective reality allows the fact of your existance. And the fact of his
but why do you like to challenge jar? There are many false gospels. Jars is but one. As a son I am repelled by such atrocity. I'm not picking on Jar per se - I would object to any false gospel and have spent alot of my time doing so here. The reason for Jar in this case is that I believe the best way to expose the untruth of his gospel is to shine light on the fact that beyond the oft-repeated headlines there is nothing of substance: no mechanism to understand, no coherancy. Just soundbites. Who knows, people here might actually come to believe him. What else someone who anguishs over the lost to do?
Are you drawing his verbal skills out of him into a new and higher art form? Jar is no slouch. But his skills are in my opinion, mis-directed. His tactics are (I have come to percieve) to dodge and weave and absorb a persons energy. Enabling Knowledge and Understanding through Discussion is not his gig. If I have done anything it is to have raised his sentences per post batting average - although I haven't checked recently
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3953 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
i guess that is where faith in scientific accuracy comes into play. we know that all examples have demonstrated thus and we have faith that the one instance that it is not so and thus will throw out all of science will never come.
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iano Member (Idle past 1966 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
Or in scientific speak: science verifies that there is an objective reality in which science can operate and so verify an objective reality.
...and other such bootstrappery
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3953 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
divisiveness is not a virtue in science or christianity. you really should know better.
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iano Member (Idle past 1966 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
Do explain...
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3953 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
you're being difficult just for the sake of being difficult. science is the method by which we define that which happens around us. it is NOT in and of itself an objective truth but rather a system by which we can claim that which happens under ordinary circumstances. you are convicting and crucifying it for something it is not. you, who every day deny the real flaws in that which you profess.
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iano Member (Idle past 1966 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
The point is that when one debates in science threads one doesn't get around difficulities by escaping to the faith and belief in an objective reality on which science rests. One implicitly ignores that explicit boundary and carrys on with that which is relevant. Long may it prosper doing so.
In postulating the eminantly reason-able and coherant structure of the gospel I argue that one should too, take the stance that believing in that structure is a boundary that can be ignored whilst the business of analysing it is carried out.
you who every day deny the real flaws in that which you profess. On such rocks, EvC builds its church. This message has been edited by iano, 13-Apr-2006 03:05 AM This message has been edited by iano, 13-Apr-2006 03:07 AM
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lfen Member (Idle past 4703 days) Posts: 2189 From: Oregon Joined: |
I would disagree. When one is purporting to back up ones position using reasoned argument whether biblically made or otherwise then ones assertions cannot simply rely on faith/belief. You might say "I believe the bible is the word of God" but when you say "this section of the bible supports this notion" then you are as locked into having your evidence support your position as you are in any science thread.
I believe you, Iano, and it's very discouraging because it means you dont' know what science is and how different it is from religion. You can't do science like religion. Textual argument are formal arguments but scientific evidence and textual arguments are based on different things. lfen edit:to complete as I misclicked and posted before finishing This message has been edited by lfen, 04-12-2006 08:47 PM
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