Existence of Demons (and Angels)

Demons and Angels exist.
Why do you believe that?
Because it is written in the bible and the bible is the word of God.
Why do you believe that?
Because I was raised in a Christian country, raised as a Christian, and I have read the bible and I believe it is unerring.
So you believe in Angels and Demons because you believe what was written in the Bible by the influence of God?
Yes.So you believe in something, even though it runs contrary to all the physical laws of the universe, and even though there is no logical reason to believe it. You believe it because that is your tradition. And even though the Bible has been shown to be written over centuries, contradictory, redacted, based on midrash of Judiasism. Even though the concept of the Devil has been shown to come from Bababylonian mythology. Even though there is not one non bias source of evidence to support any of it, you still believe it.
OK.
So do you believe in the Book of Mormon?
No...why not it is based on the word of God too. Oh you get to select what books to believe in and what is the real word of God.
I get it.
Well I do not believe in Angels or Demons because I have seen no evidence what so ever to give creedence to such mythos.
Well you should believe it because my friend saw a demon.
Oh Ok I guess thats good enough.

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"One is punished most for ones virtues" Fredrick Neitzche

Ok. born again? what does that mean?
you experienced him? what does that mean?
and you have seen proof. What proof did you see?
Born again is a term based on the acceptance of Jesus Christ as God and the sacrifice made from his death to allow the forgivness of sin.Wellllllll...First off one must first believe God exist. And also that the concept of sin is factual. and lastley that Jesus was God incarnate.
If one is atheist or Buddhist the God thingy is not a option for any one except montheistic religions.
The concept of original sin based on the Garden of Eden story bases the whole need of a reedemer on this thing called sin. If sin is found to be based on societies waviering morality and is subjective then the whole need for redemption falls like a house of cards.
Lastley only Christians believe that Jesus was God incarnate, so what does this mean to everyone else? We are all just shit out of luck."I experienced him" ok...you felt the presence of God. You felt the holy spirit fill you. ummm you were guided by his presence.
Thats all well and good except that PET scans of people in religious states of mind and prayer reveal that the brain does indeed have some physical changes associated with meditation. OR prayer. So is it God or is it Endorphins? Note that even buddhist monks and pagans where able to achieve this effect."I have seen proof" Proof is a function of mathmatics. If there is a proof of God then you Phatboy are privy to some information that escapes the rest of humanity.God may very well exist...but I do not believe if he does that he cares what religion you are, or what you believe, or whether or not you send 300 dollars from your credit card as a "seed of faith". I think God if he exist is nothing like what many claim they have "seen" or felt. Take care and Peace be with you.

kinda like that movie "The Village" . Shit I even thought those damn monsters were real.

Hi Faith, this one statement sums up perfectley the mindset of many theist. "there is no evidence that could disprove..." Stating that shuts out any possiblity of there EVER being evidence of any kind that would sway your personal beliefs.Thats like saying: This man is not guilty and there is nothing you can show me, no amount of evidence will sway my belief that this man is guilty. Regardless of witnesses, murder weapon, video data of him committing the crime, motive, Nothing you can show me will sway me.Well ok...faith is believing in something in the absence of evidence....and now faith is believing in something regardless of evidence.How strong is your faith? If you and I were to go up in a plane and I had a parachute and you did not. I put my faith in the laws of physics and the body of knowlege of science. You put your fatih in God that you will not fall to your death.
I submit as evidence that you would not take this challenge that your faith is nothing more than lip service.

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"One is punished most for ones virtues" Fredrick Neitzche

Hi Faith, "I am certain there is no such evidence." Hello??
Thats my point again. "absoultley certain..." Again you make my point. Again contradiction within the same utterance. Oh I get it now, you can accept only evidence that supports your premise..Silly me. For once I'd like to see someone of such unshakeable faith back it up with more than: ""I believe because it is just so obvious the truth. I am certain that this is how it is because it could not be any other way.""" Feel good, catch phrase fluff. Avoidance denial and fear. It is very common.I do not need to believe there is some "blessing" after death to assure me or to comfort me from my mortality. But I understand that some do. And that fine, what ever blows your hair back. Just remember though there are many who do not share your beliefs who are just as convinced that they're beliefs are the truth. So what makes them wrong and you right? What makes your personal faith and belief the end all of the truth. Arrogance and Ignorance. Arrogance in thinking that of all the faiths and beliefs yours is THE right one.
And the ignorance of willfully denying any truth that may possibly put a chink in that self rightous armor you call your faith. If that plane is going down you will be shitting your pants just like everyone else on that plane. Get over yourself. Ummm wrong. Virgin birth: please show scientific evidence of how a human female can concieve and deliver without sperm. Also site how a human female ova can form a blastula and become a embryo in the absence of male genetic information. Also explain how a human can only have 23 chromosomes and live to the age of 30.Also please explain how Noah could of possibly loaded every existing taxa of organisms in the time frame alloted by the Flood accounts.In addition please show mathmatically how a human adult male can walk on water without breaking the surface tension of the water. Please show your calculations.And last,,,Please tell me how 1 + 1 + 1 = 1 and not 3.
*edit mispelled...Peace be with you.This message has been edited by 1.61803, 04-21-2005 11:15 PMThis message has been edited by 1.61803, 04-21-2005 11:23 PM

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"One is punished most for ones virtues" Fredrick Neitzche

Hi Faith,
Miracles are contrary to the natural laws of the Universe.
For as long as phenomenon have occured beyond mans ability to understand it there have been "miracles" or superstition to explain the unknown. Eventually through the process of scientific methodology the unknown is revealed as part of the natural order of how reality plays out. The miracle is life itself. The miracle is how
energy/matter has become sentient. Nature is a miraculous. God or what ever the mechanism that is behind it all is far more than some mythology dating back to the ancient middle east. Humans are intelligent thinking creatures that have evolved to the point of asking what is this mechanism, how can I understand it? If we never did that we would still be throwing rocks at the moon and believing that the Earth is flat. God (if he exist) would be very disapointed indeed. Peace be with you.

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"One is punished most for ones virtues" Fredrick Neitzche