Is belief in God madness in a modern world?

and this...Edited by anastasia, : No reason given.

Phat, you dog... That question is far more difficult to answer than at first glance. We all have to put on our thinking caps. I thought to make a simple yes or no, but that is not satisfactory.I had to divide it in two. I wish I could say more with less words, but this does not lend itself to wit, but demands patient pursuit of sound and logical theology. I hope I did not make any significant mistakes.Bear with me... Yes. It cannot be otherwise. Without God (reality), there is no difference between a good deed and a bad one. The only reason we think a deed good, is because we believe that it reflects what should actually be. Or to put it another way, we believe it conforms to reality, and we must assume that reality is good.So we assume in our minds by necessity that good is a 'real' thing. And 'real' is notably the root word of 'reality'. So 'good' is implicitly 'real'. And reality is inalteralbly ansolute! So reality is real, and it is good, then it must be perfect. Irrespective of our opinions of what perfection (reality) is... it is what it is. And since reality is not a lifeless concept but is alive unto itself, then 'I am what I am'.That's why Jesus said, ...'No one is good but God'. We don't create goodness (energy can niether be created or destroyed), we can only reflect it. Not at all in my mind. The one does not necessitate the other. A person may choose to do good for a number of reasons, apart from God. But it is still God's will being implimented, because if it really is good, then it works for good.But that does not make the person good. If I do good because it will benefit my career, then I do it, not for Goodness sake, but for my own. If I was God, that would suffice, but I am not.Reality exists for reality's sake. So if good is real, then to be good, I must do it for God. And this is what none of us do in terms of the implication of perfection that appears.If anyone claims their deeds do make them good, then they do not understand goodness (the inevitable conclusions of reality, reached within the boundaries of logic).We may be good relative to evil and total hell (which earth has never experienced btw). But relative to God and His reality (heaven) we are wretched.That is why the doctrine of the fall is so critical. It places our bar above, rather than below. And that is the only doctrine that is logical if God is assumed to be good.The reality in my mind, is that we were created to be good (perfect), and that is why we are not satisfied with ourselves (particularly others).If there was no fall, then what do we need to climb from... Reality? No! We are trying to get up (in that sense) not down.The true measure of what is good, must, by logical necessity, be God (above). Anything less is not good.And although we may display some measure of goodness, we are not good because good is perfect, perfect is reality , and reality is not relative but absolute!My brain hurts... Must have wine...

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If we will not learn to eat the only food that the universe grows ” the only food that any possible universe ever can grow ” then we must starve eternally. (Lewis- The Problem of Pain)

no, this is not how it works, you don't tell them to get their own views right, thats pretty much dictating someone elses views, you make it sound like your distorted view of what they said is right and when they say you are wrong, you say they need to stop believing what they believe and believe the distorted garbage you think they believe, so you can prove them wrong but you arn't correcting anything they believe, just a strawman of what they believe no jar said no one has shown an absolute morality, of course there are absolute truths, like we exist the universe exists. are you just ignoring what people say or what? jar is not saying what you are claiming he is! and this is relevent to anything how? reality is reality the physical nature of the universe

I'm so glad you agree that reality is obviously absolute. It cannot be otherwise.But the physical world is relative. So the absolute part is found elsewhere.Ok? Can we be friends now?

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If we will not learn to eat the only food that the universe grows ” the only food that any possible universe ever can grow ” then we must starve eternally. (Lewis- The Problem of Pain)

so you have just contridicted the bible, god is god, reality is our precption of the physical universe, and even so reality is malible, or do you think that person with scizafrenia really doesn't have it? does that mean they see the same reality we do? if we do then why are they locked in rubber rooms and we arn't?i don't know where you get the clue that we think an action is good because it reflects anything. we do good things because of the outcomes and meaning to others, what do you mean it conforms to reality? i don't do things for that reason, i do things because it makes people happy and i feel good, and it means something to me 'good' is not an object it is a qualifier for actions and things, you are just making up a convoluted word-salad, it just looks like you are trying to make good equal= reality when no one thinks of good verses evil as reality. i can't even figure out what this really means its a bunch of gobblity-gook equivation that doesn't work so is good matter and evil anti-matter then? this is a bunch of nonsense why the heck do you think reality is good? reality is neather good or evil, reality is nothing but a word to signify the preception of the physical universe more meaningless babble, reality is neather good or evil, god is not reality god is god and you don't have a clue what jesus was talking about then, because jesus said good deeds do make you good no we arn't, fanaticism makes it seem like that, but its normal in all life to think bad thoughts too bad its not remotely viable or biblical, all it shows is that you worship a tyrant who is a weakling the reality is in your mind, so it isn't an absolute at all! you just killed your own argument, everything before this is babble by you. you make your own reality and it happens to be absurd, i don't care to be perfect or do i think thats root of anything why does there have to be a fall? jesus didn't come to earth to save us from any fall, he came to save us from the actions god doesn't like, which you call sins, the sins are not of our nature they are actions, and jesus came to tell us what actions are right and ones arn't
if the fall is so damn important to our salvation, then why doesn't jesus talk about it? thats not logical at all! what would be logical is to measure by how many people you harm when you preform an action, not some arbitrary god that may or may not exist! good is a word to describe the pain we cause in relation to others verses another action, this claim you are making is 100% BS, reality is far from good, or do you ignore the storms, death disease and destruction in this world? mine too, mostly from the garbage you are trying to shove around, you have shown in no way, that what you said is true

no reality is not absolute, you are equvaliting the physical with reality being the world we see, they are not the samething it is? you mean you see the sun as something else? you don't see earth when you look at it?sounds like you need to stop hitting the acid what? the objective physical universe exists without any humans to see it.
if reality is absolute the way you claim it is, then people in mental hospitals arn't sick or the people outside are and should switch

Really? Are you stating that as an absolute?You cannot challenge the law of non-contradiction rev, without proving it! Because in order to challenge it, you have to infer that you are right, and I am wrong.I could give more illustrations, but it would only confuse you.Slow down and think about these things some more...

Scottness writes: RevDG says: Have you never heard of Einsteins Relativity E=MC2 ?Of course I see the sun, but what is a sun, and what is a grain of sand for that matter? I certainly cannot define it, other than in terms relative to my own understanding. Gave it up long ago... Of course! You believe it existed lifeless at some time to evolve us don't you? I don't believe in evolution but still believe this also. You got things backwards. If reality isn't absolute, then we have no standard by which to measure sickness as sick.But such a standard is not physical, but rather rational or ideational. It is information. And information is not a material entity.There is incorrect information that is either false, or misapplied. And there is correct information that is true and coherent.

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If we will not learn to eat the only food that the universe grows ” the only food that any possible universe ever can grow ” then we must starve eternally. (Lewis- The Problem of Pain)

Yo're letting your being offended, affect your judgement.What do you worship Rev? What is it that you shower with praise and adulation? A favorite author? A lover? An automobile?We were created to praise. We must, in order to fulfill our own hapiness, have an object of worship.

If I say 'I am attempting an objective view of morality' it has nothing to do with whether or not morality is objective. 'Objective' is used here to modify my view, not morality. Our views are capable of being far from objective

Yes I'm sorry. You're using Websters definition number 4, I am using it in the context of definition 1 and 2...

Websters: Objective1: of, or relating to an object or end (my favorite)2: existing outside and independant of the mind (my other favorite)3: of, relating to or constituting a grammatical case marking typically the object of a verb or preposition. (irrelevant) 4: treating or dealing with facts without distortion by personal feelings or prejudices (my other favorite)

Imitation is the most sincere form of praise.Pop quiz:How many times does the word "absolute" appear in the Bible?
How many exclamation points appear in the Bible? Interesting choice of words: "object".

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C'mon Ringo... you are much smarter than this!The whole concept of the Bible is absolute. It is said to be the very Word from the mouth of God.The word is not as important as the concept. We can use all kinds of analogies to cet a concept accross. And that is why the Bible is so descriptive. That is why the parables are used... To get the concepts accross to those who are seeking.But if one takes a subjective view, and tries to determine for himself what is true. Then he will find himself on the side of truth's enemy.Truth does not exist to justify a man. Truth condemns him, and that is why he tries to rework it and hide from it.

Empty assertion.I asked you a question: How many times does the word "absolute" appear in the Bible?I'm giving you a chance to demonstrate that your beliefs are not madness.

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