Heaven

Im going to jump in here for a couple things that numbers said. I dont like to argue or debate but i can just put my take in to some of the questions he/she asked. All of your questions were great but do they really matter? Im not saying that they dont matter but that nobody on earth has the answers that you want. Or what will happen to people who never get a chance to be taught about Jesus? Of course nobody has those answers but God. I mean I dont know if you are just trying to prove Christianity is a waste of time or that you can come up with good questions to ask. All that matters is believing and God will take care of the rest. Isnt that a wonderful thing? I think so, but I bet you dont.

Firstly, my beleif is based on my faith in the Lord, I don't come here to debate my religion because I know in my heart it is the truth, I will however point out a few things to you.Quote: Did you know that along time ago the Catholic church was in a little pickle because some considered all sin as punishiable by going to hell. This affected church attendance and the donations were suffering. Well the church decided to let there be venial sin and mortal sin.If you read the bible you would find that all sin is punishable by going to hell and the only way for forgivness is to accept Jesus died for your sins and to ask for forgivness. If people leave church because they don't like the fact that all sin is punishable buy hell there is no way the church should change the truth just to please these people because it doesn't change the facts in the bible.Quote: And also decided to invent a place called purgertory for the venial sinner to be prayed into heaven.Exactly...Invent, nowhere in the bible does it say there is purgatory..there is heaven and hell and that's it, people may not like it but inventing new things aren't going to change the truth. It also doesn't matter if the church is reaceaving heaps of donations, if the information they are receaving is incorrect then they are just wasting their time.Quote: So my point is this what if Hell was invented to keep the faithful inline. And suppose Heaven was invented to reward the faithful.No, it wasn't invented, it does clearly state in the bible that there is a heaven and hell, and what you have to do to get to these places.Quote: If the only way to be saved is through Jesus then what about the multitudes of people born before he? are they in hell? And what about the billions who know nothing of him?Before Jesus things were different, read the old testament. As for the people who havn't heard of Jesus, well...God is loving, kind and just and if someone hadn't heard the word I'm sure He would understand and take that into account, It's like if a baby dies in a miscarriage, he/she doesn't go to hell.Quote: what if you where born in Iraq? You would be muslim. What if you were born to a Jewish family? So by your belief would be going to hell. Do you not see the arrogance in that sort of thinking? Your "salvation" dependant on CHANCE that you were born in the right place. I do not think God is a racist. And I feel like Christians tend to condemn anyone who does not accept Christ to hell and personally find this "Im right and you are all wrong mentality ridculous and arrogant Then again I just crazy like that.There are Christians in every country and even people in Iraq know about Jesus, they just choose to ignor Him. Christians don't condemn anyone, they try to help people find Jesus so they can be saved. As for the right and wron attitude, well it states all I beleave in the bible, teachings that people risked their lives for. So yes, I know what I feel to be right, by things God has done to help me, how He gives me peace when I'm troubled and many other things and I know by His word in the bible.

FYI I'm a Muslim.I know about Jesus, God's Messenger to Israel. I just don't believe that he died for our sins. As I believed, no soul shall be burdened with another, so even if he want to die carrying all our sins God still do not allow it.We should be responsible for everything we do ourselves, don't you think?

Which Bible would that be? Book of Mormon, King James Version, Catholic Bible, The Koran, The Torah? Which bible contains the keys to all of mankind not burning for all eternity.
Which Bible is the only one that is correct and without error?
Because there are Billions who need to know our very eternal existance depends on YOU giving all of US the right information.

Quote: I just don't believe that he died for our sinsWell, I don't know where you get your information but it staes pretty clearly in the bible that Jesus did infact die for our sins, If you don't beleive that then you will have to deal with it when Jesus returns, nothing I can say will change your mind.

So? The Call of Cthulhu says that the entity from which I took my name will one day return and slaughter humanity. That doesn't mean that this is true.

---

Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn!

Quote: Which Bible would that be? Book of Mormon, King James Version, Catholic Bible, The Koran, The Torah? Which bible contains the keys to all of mankind not burning for all eternity.
Which Bible is the only one that is correct and without error?There is only one true bible and if you can't work that out then I can't really help you, I will however find some answers for your question from someone more knowlagable than me, I will get back to you when I have the information.Quote: Because there are Billions who need to know our very eternal existance depends on YOU giving all of US the right information.Um no, you eternal existance and salvation depends on you, not me. I can answer questions you may have and try to help but in the end it is up to you. Sorry, but that's the truth.

lets see...the 7 most popular versions
New International
New KJV
New Revised Standard
New Century Version
New Amer. Standard
Revised Standard
The Living BibleNot to mention the differences between the Catholic, Protestant and Orthodox versions.The Torah.There was always the Wycliffe, Tyndale, Coverdale, Matthew, Great, Geneva, and Bishop's versions. Or the Peshitta, Armenian, Old Latin Vulgate, Waldensian, Gothic, or Old Syriac.How about the Codex Sinaiticus or the Codex Vaticanus or maybe the Textus Receptus. Maybe the Septuagint or Masoritic Texts.There are many more. Which one is the "one true bible"(tm)?

http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/b_proof.shtml

If your bare link was suppose to be an answer to the question of which bible is "THE" bible, then I must have missed it.Your link is nothing more than another apologetic with faulty, circular reasoning.Maybe you would like to pick one item from that link and discuss it. After you answer the question of course.Bare links are discouraged here. You should only use links to support your argument, not as your whole argument.

---

Asgara
"Embrace the pain, spank your inner moppet, whatever....but get over it"

I'm not arguing with anyone, I have no need to defend my faith, the proof does that for me.As for my link, if you cannot understand it then thats your problem, sorry but I don't wish to discuss this further with someone who is only looking for an argument and not looking for the truth.God bless

First off, who said I was looking for an argument? I believe my words were "discussion." My initial reply to you was a question concerning something you had said. If you cannot answer it then thats your problem.Secondly, who said I didn't understand your link? It's a pretty generic apologetic, utilizing many assumptions and downright falsities.If you don't want to discuss anything with anyone, I wonder what you are doing on a discussion board. Preaching to the members here isn't going to accomplish anything without debate. Debate is part of the search for truth you claim I am not looking for. If I didn't question you then how could I be sure that what you are offering is the truth.This is only my opinion, but it seems to me that those who are afraid to debate there belief must be very unsure of it. Is it that they might hear something that would lead them away from their belief?But you said that you don't want to debate, so I guess that you won't be posting here anymore. What would be the use of talking to yourself?

---

Asgara
"Embrace the pain, spank your inner moppet, whatever....but get over it"

Quote:This is only my opinion, but it seems to me that those who are afraid to debate there belief must be very unsure of it. Is it that they might hear something that would lead them away from their belief?I'm not afraid to debate but because there are many things I am not completely sure of I cannot answer until I have spoken to someone who has more Knowlage ie: My husband or the pastor.My link had a lot of useful and very helpful information on it, it isn't my fault that you didn't find it any good.I have no problem with debate but when I clearly post the answer to someones question and the continue to go on and on with questions they could easily get from the bible or a website on Christianity then yes it's wasting my time.

Except that you didn't answer the question of which bible is "the one true bible". Your link didn't address it either. Which bible am I to read to find out which bible is the one true bible? Which of the contradictory websites on Christianity am I to read to find out which bible is the one true bible?After all, you are the one that claimed that there is only one true bible. I would think that for someone who believes this, it would be an easy matter to type that answer into a reply window. You must have a copy of the one true bible right there in your home.I do want to make a few things clear. I am not attacking your faith. If it makes you happy, I'm happy for you. I was questioning a specific claim you made in order to clarify your meaning. If you can't answer the question, then you had no business making the claim.edited to add { maybe you could simply link to where you answered my specific question }[This message has been edited by Asgara, 03-31-2004]

---

Asgara
"Embrace the pain, spank your inner moppet, whatever....but get over it"

Shy, I was being sarcastic when I said our very eternal souls depend on you giving us the right information. Why was I being sarcastic? Because it is ridiculous to think that Billions are burning in hell for not believing in a book compiled over the ages which contains Jewish and Christian mythology(IMO) that has been contorted into this idea that if you dont 'believe' the right thing you will spend eternity in everlasting flames. I was trying in my previous post to show you how narrow minded Christianity can be (not to mention arrogant.) If God is willing to condemn the rest of the earth to hell for not believing a story in a book called the bible then I want no part of that god. I will take my chances with believing in a good god. A just god. A non racist god. Asgara has questions perhaps you can answer them. Peace be with you.