Salvation by faith and works : intellectually ridiculous?

Let's assume for the moment that I actually have a bit of faith. How much is "enough"?Is a tiny little bit enough to get me into heaven? How about 0.01% strength of faith? Kind of wavering on not believing at all?Another problem too.What about all the people who have (or claim to have) all the faith in the world yet they still do evil deeds in the name of God?
How about the two sons of a good friend of mine. (true story) One whacked the other around the head with a snow shovel in anger while clearing the snow off my driveway. When I asked him why he did it, he replied "It doesn't matter! I'm a Christian so I'm guaranteed my place in heaven!"
Apparently that's what they teach at his church.I don't see why someone like this who, has a bunch of faith yet does nasty things, should stand any better chance of going to heaven than an atheist (or a believer in another religion) who spends his entire life selflessly helping others.Faith alone seems like a really crappy way to go about the decision making process.

I wasn't planning to. However the two sides of the coin are pretty tightly entangled in the arguments. It's difficult to talk about just one side without comparrissons between both. Much as it would intrigue me to get into the validity of claims that there actually are God-made Christians, that would be O/T for this thread so I will refrain from that for now.
Assuming that there is such a thing, then what would be the criteria for God to choose who to make into a Christian?
Again there would be a fine line which people could fall extremely close to either side of. After the conversion there could be a massive difference but prior to it, not much I think.

You are kidding. Right?
If I honestly believed that there was a God and that he behaved in this kind of fashion then I would actively side against him from choice, as I would much rather be tortured in Hell than be forced to remain in the company of such a hypocritical, foul being as this. Again this is O/T for your thread but I just find it so hard to understand your position on this And what would you have me do? Follow his example?It seems to me that the only way that a genuinely good God would act is to judge people by their deeds alone. Maybe this judgement could take place by a mechanism where God himself chooses which humans are to be saved. All I am saying is that I don't see any way to get away from some arbitrary line in the sand, either way you cut it.

Since the bible is the very place that I got my notions of god from, I don't see this. And I am who I am. I can't change that either. If God hasn't decided to make me a Christian then I guess he must have his reasons. It certainly isn't because I didn't give him the chance. I spent years doing just that. He obviously just doesn't like me for some arbitrary reason.
Ah well! I won't let that bother me. I will just keep on being nice to people anyway. If that doesn't get me to heaven, tough!I'm sorry but your concept of God is absolutely and utterly incompatable with any kind of God that I have ever believed in. In fact your version of God appears to me to be much closer to the incarnation of evil.As far as you OP question goes, I don't see any problem whatsoever with judging people by deeds alone. I could respect a God who would work that way. The other options just seem to me to be unreasonable, abhorant and utterly incompatable with the concept of a just and loving God.
You will obviously never be able to see it from my point of view just like I will never see it from yours.
If I'm right then I will quite likely see you in heaven but if you are right then I hope I don't because it isn't a place that I would ever want to be.See you laterPY

And how do you think one can change this position?
Is it even possible?
Particularly if you look at 1 cor 2:14 (as you keep pointing out in other threads)
If you are "Spiritually dead" then you are doomed. right? Even if it isn't your own fault because you were born that wayI could be (hypothetically of course. I don't think I am for one minute} the most perfect human being born since Jesus. I could spend my entire life doing nothing but good and helping others selflessly but God for some reason chooses to withhold his "Christianity" from me for some reason that I can't hope to figure out.This means I'm going to hell? Right?And you like this concept better than one in which we have to earn our place in heaven? I really don't understand where you are coming from.

No you have it completely wrong. Can't say I blame you though based on our previous conversations.
For more years than I care to remember I talked to God about every little thing in my life. I never asked for anything. I was just content to leave the door unconditionally open with a welcome mat, so to speak. I never once so much as caught even the most fleeting sensation that there might actually be somebody there.As the years went by I slowly but surely came to realize that I was talking to a being that only existed in my own (and everyone elses) imagination. That too soon faded as well just like my belief in Santa Claus had many years earlier.If God is real then he has chosen to ignore me for his own reasons. That doesn't make me bitter or anything.If he chooses to make himself known to me in ways that I can understand then I just hope that he isn't the way that you portray him because if he does turn out that way then he will get the finger and the door will be slammed forever, whatever the consequences to myself.Fortunately I don't believe for one second that God could be that way so it isn't really an issue is it?

This is indeed a major issue.
What you hold seems to be one of those intelectual paradoxes. If God knows what choices we will make and yet it isn't predestination then you are putting limits on God. Maybe he set it all up with a giant cosmically scaled randomizer? But then what kind of randomizer could he make which he didn't know the outcome of? I just can't see logical a way out of this paradox.
I've said this loads of times before but I'll say it one more time. Given an ALL Powerfull and All Knowing God, then the following.
It actually doesn't matter {to us} if we have no control over our ultimate destiny since it appears to us that we do have choices. It's just that God already knows each and every choice we will ever make. he already knows which of us will be saved and which won't. He has always known.In actual fact, an All Everything God is actually a paradox in itself.
If He knows His own future then he cannot change it and is therefore NOT All powerful.
If He is able to change the future then he is NOT all knowing.But that is a subject for another thread.Your (faith alone, God's decision who to save, scenario), along with an All everything God implies that whatever I do and whatever choices I make are going to have absolutely no effect on my ultimate destination. As trixie said, "Where is the free will in that?"I could maybe accept a combination approach where your deeds have an effect on god's decision to save you. That doesn't appear to be the case though. We so often hear of hardened criminals suddenly becoming "saved" My heart is nothing but a pump. It can't want anything.
My gut processes food and removes its goodness. Otherwise it's just full of S*** so why should i trust anything that it wants.
My "soul" if it exists as a seperate entity from my body (which I seriously doubt) and my "being" (I take this as life force or whatever) both wanted him for many many years. He didn't come. I got bored with waiting and moved on. Yet in every case of this happening there were no other witnesses to the event. The "Godly" people always seemed to be alone at the time so all we ever have in the bible is second hand information which as we all know, gets exagerated in the re-telling. That's Human nature. No actually, I only wave my (puny) fist at your representation of him. There are plenty of other ways to depict God. You are simply forcing him into a pidgeon hole and assigning values to him which I would associate much more closely with the guy downstairs. Your God is evil to me. Utterly not deserving of my worship. The more I speak with you, the more certain I become that you have been seduced by the dark side without ever realizing it.I see no love in your God. I see cruel punishments dealt out in equal measures to the inocent and desrving both.
I see no justice in your God. I see random acts of horror committed to whomever he decides based on nothing but a whim.I can do without that kind of salvation thanks.You (and others) talk of God's morals. If I were to use Your God's moral code to live by, I would be Ghengis Khan or Hitler.If people are judged by their deeds only then there is a fair system in place. I think there is a much greater divide than your 0.1 seconds of lusting after a member of the opposite sex. What about things like honesty, integrity, general benevolence? It's much harder to sit on the fence about such things.For example, if you meet someone who needs your help in some way and you are capable of giving it. You can either do so or not. It's black and white. If you sit around for 3 weeks and debate whether to help or not then by default you haven't helped.Deeds (and intentions) alone make perfect sense.
God arbitrarily choosing who to save or not based on criteria that we are unable to know or fathom, takes away any input that we have in the decision. Period. It utterly negates that "free-will" stuff that you claim God gave us. What's the point in us having the freedom to choose when our choices have absolutely no effect on the outcome? The only one with a real choice is God.