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Author
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Topic: Who can be saved? A Christian perspective
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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 317 of 466 (640915)
11-14-2011 9:38 AM
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Reply to: Message 316 by Phat
11-14-2011 3:15 AM
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Re: Wrestling with God
Actually, I have said that Jesus died because Jesus was born. I have no idea what will become of you.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 316 by Phat, posted 11-14-2011 3:15 AM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 319 by Phat, posted 11-14-2011 12:56 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 321 of 466 (640939)
11-14-2011 2:46 PM
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Reply to: Message 319 by Phat
11-14-2011 12:56 PM
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Re: Those Proud Yet Stubborn Christians
India graduates more honor students each year then there are students in the US. Faith does nothing. Whether or not you accept a debt, the debt is still due.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 319 by Phat, posted 11-14-2011 12:56 PM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 322 by Phat, posted 11-15-2011 12:05 AM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 323 of 466 (641007)
11-15-2011 10:10 AM
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Reply to: Message 322 by Phat
11-15-2011 12:05 AM
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Re: Those Proud Yet Stubborn Christians
Phat writes: If they take our jobs at less expense, they will only cause a dissatisfied majority that is willing to even use WMD's if need be. My point is, there wont be any one power strong enough to stop a frustrated and pissed off US middle class. Honorable or not, there may be some deadly wars. If we are not educated we cannot take the jobs regardless of the expense. If they are better educated they will get the jobs even at a higher expense.
Phat writes: jar writes: Faith does nothing. I don't see how this is relevant. Then why did you keep saying stuff like "We trust the God whom we worship, and fully expect Him to forgive and bless us, even though logic shows that God is far bigger than our simple lifetime and our claims to social and economic advantage that we have grown to expect. " ... and "Our faith is strong, however, and deep down we know that God is not the god of money. None of us want to have anything to do with Hell, though our morality tends to be aimed at preservation of our class and not of the Islamic, Hindu, or Atheist babies the world over whom, if they turn out wealthier than us, will be used by Satan to get us to fall on our own sword...IF...we don't listen to our inner conscience (Holy Spirit?) before grabbing the gun off of the rack. "?
Phat writes: jar writes: Whether or not you accept a debt, the debt is still due. Either it gets paid, or you and i wont see our full pensions. Honor too has its price, and many wont accept too harsh of a sentence. It really does not much matter what they will accept. Reality is. And what does any of this have to do with the topic?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 322 by Phat, posted 11-15-2011 12:05 AM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 324 by Phat, posted 11-15-2011 3:50 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 325 of 466 (641030)
11-15-2011 4:04 PM
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Reply to: Message 324 by Phat
11-15-2011 3:50 PM
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Re: Who Can Be Saved?
HUH? What I have said is that Salvation, if given, will be a free gift; it will be God saying "Yup, you screwed up but I see you really tried hard, so I forgive your failures." But no one has a clue, or can even have a clue, about whether or not they will be saved until after they are dead, tried and judged. What I have said is that if there is a heaven, there will be far more atheists, agnostics, Hindus, Taoists, Muslims, Jews, Satanists, Buddhists, Animists, followers of Confucius, Mencius, the Norse, Greek, Roman, Egyptian and Germanic Gods, than there will be Christians there. And HUH yet again. The once proud financial system didn't and will not fail, the people fail. The system does nothing. It is the day to day decisions that people make that will determine success or failure. Those who planned ahead and took precautions will likely suffer far less than those who did not.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 324 by Phat, posted 11-15-2011 3:50 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Jesus was a Jew
Jesus was a Jew, not a Christian.
iaj writes: However, how do you, as a Christian, contradict a pivotal doctrine of Christianity - it cannot be a mere wrong interpretation as the doctrine is very precisely listed? Sorry, but it is not that precisely listed.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 326 by IamJoseph, posted 11-16-2011 1:03 AM | | IamJoseph has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 330 of 466 (641077)
11-16-2011 8:58 AM
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Reply to: Message 328 by Pressie
11-16-2011 6:25 AM
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The most evil Calvanist God
Yup, a God that knowingly creates critters that will be damned to hell is just plain evil. It really is that simple.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 328 by Pressie, posted 11-16-2011 6:25 AM | | Pressie has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Jesus was a Jew
But I believe in Jesus so no irregularity there. And Jesus worked to reform the Jewish Laws and finally put some sense into them. Jesus added the touch of reasonablness that had been missing from Jewish law, the understanding that there are times the right act is to "fuggitaboutit". Edited by jar, : forgot to address the Jewish law issue.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 331 by IamJoseph, posted 11-16-2011 9:03 AM | | IamJoseph has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 333 by Phat, posted 11-17-2011 9:14 AM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 334 of 466 (641153)
11-17-2011 9:18 AM
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Reply to: Message 333 by Phat
11-17-2011 9:14 AM
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Re: Jesus was a Jew
Of course, you post has absolutely nothing to do with the quote from me that you included. In fact, what you mention is exactly the behavior Jesus condemned and judged as unacceptable.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 333 by Phat, posted 11-17-2011 9:14 AM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 335 by Phat, posted 11-17-2011 10:03 AM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 336 of 466 (641162)
11-17-2011 10:11 AM
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Reply to: Message 335 by Phat
11-17-2011 10:03 AM
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Re: Jesus was a Jew
But what does the manual say?
Matthew 25 writes: 31When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. 41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. Where in that passage does he address Jews differently than Gentiles?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 335 by Phat, posted 11-17-2011 10:03 AM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 337 by ICANT, posted 11-17-2011 10:20 AM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 338 of 466 (641166)
11-17-2011 10:48 AM
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Reply to: Message 337 by ICANT
11-17-2011 10:20 AM
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Re: Jesus was a Jew
It addresses "all the world" so both Jews and Gentiles are gathered. And from the text, it seems pretty clear that the Goats are all followers of Jesus, what we would call Christians today.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 337 by ICANT, posted 11-17-2011 10:20 AM | | ICANT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 339 by GDR, posted 11-17-2011 2:02 PM | | jar has replied | | | Message 341 by ICANT, posted 11-17-2011 3:14 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 340 of 466 (641175)
11-17-2011 2:54 PM
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Reply to: Message 339 by GDR
11-17-2011 2:02 PM
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The Goats were followers of Jesus.
Let's look at the replies from the two groups. First the sheep:
quote:
37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
Note that they acknowledge that they never did any of the things for Jesus. Now look at what the Goats replied:
quote:
44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Note the big difference. The Goats say "When did we ever not do for you?" The former reaction is typical of folk that were not his followers, did not do anything for him; the latter reaction is typical of his followers who know that they did do for him. The Sheep are astonished because he says that they did for him when they know that they did not, that they never did anything for Jesus even though he claims they did:
quote:
34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
while the latter are astonished because they knew that they did do for him even though he says they did not:
quote:
41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
I imagine that all of the Goats will be Christians.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 339 by GDR, posted 11-17-2011 2:02 PM | | GDR has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 342 of 466 (641177)
11-17-2011 3:19 PM
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Reply to: Message 341 by ICANT
11-17-2011 3:14 PM
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Re: Jesus was a Jew
When Israel is mentioned in the Bible fables there are several different and unique meanings, and one must pay attention to the context to understand the meanings. Israel as a Nation was often apostate and there is nothing to imply that the current Nation called Israel has anything to do with any mention of Israel in the Bible. Israel, as a chosen people, is yet another meaning, one that Jesus explains is a totally false belief. Your interpretation is simply crap and not supported by the actual words.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 341 by ICANT, posted 11-17-2011 3:14 PM | | ICANT has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 355 by IamJoseph, posted 11-17-2011 8:47 PM | | jar has seen this message but not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 346 of 466 (641181)
11-17-2011 5:14 PM
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Reply to: Message 343 by ICANT
11-17-2011 3:25 PM
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Re: The Goats were followers of Jesus.
Your post is just more Goat bleeting. Edited by jar, : appalin spallin
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 343 by ICANT, posted 11-17-2011 3:25 PM | | ICANT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 364 by ICANT, posted 11-17-2011 9:40 PM | | jar has seen this message but not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 347 of 466 (641182)
11-17-2011 5:16 PM
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Reply to: Message 344 by rueh
11-17-2011 3:28 PM
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Re: The Goats were followers of Jesus.
I am not say that all Christians will be Goats, but that far more Goats will be Christians than anything else. For example, a Christian that supports the current Nation of Israel and does not support the Palestinians is a Goat.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 344 by rueh, posted 11-17-2011 3:28 PM | | rueh has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 348 of 466 (641183)
11-17-2011 6:01 PM
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Reply to: Message 344 by rueh
11-17-2011 3:28 PM
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Re: The Goats were followers of Jesus.
Let me expand a little more along this line. There are many Christians that view Christianity and Christians as Jesus chosen people just as there are many Jews (and were many Jews in Jesus day) that viewed the Hebrews as a Chosen People. A popular marketing tactic when selling Christianity is that it is only those who profess Jesus, are washed in the Blood of the Lamb, are Born Again, have been Saved, been Called to the Altar, touched by the Hand of God, and a whole bunch of other bumper sticker trivialities, only those member of the "in Crowd" get to go to Heaven. Jesus is pretty clear that all that is is bullshit, snake oil marketing, nonsense. A good example can be found in Luke 4.
quote:
23And he said unto them, Ye will surely say unto me this proverb, Physician, heal thyself: whatsoever we have heard done in Capernaum, do also here in thy country. 24And he said, Verily I say unto you, No prophet is accepted in his own country. 25But I tell you of a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land; 26But unto none of them was Elias sent, save unto Sarepta, a city of Sidon, unto a woman that was a widow. 27And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Eliseus the prophet; and none of them was cleansed, saving Naaman the Syrian. 28And all they in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath, 29And rose up, and thrust him out of the city, and led him unto the brow of the hill whereon their city was built, that they might cast him down headlong.
Here Jesus is speaking in a synagogue in his home town to Jewish Elders, yet he points out that Elias ad Eliseus were NOT sent to the Jews, but to nations other than Israel.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 344 by rueh, posted 11-17-2011 3:28 PM | | rueh has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 351 by IamJoseph, posted 11-17-2011 8:28 PM | | jar has seen this message but not replied | | | Message 354 by GDR, posted 11-17-2011 8:47 PM | | jar has seen this message but not replied |
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