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Author Topic:   What is the evolutionairy theory on the Giraffe?
lbhandli
Inactive Member


Message 58 of 70 (911)
12-18-2001 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Fred Williams
12-18-2001 6:12 PM


Any particular outcome is highly unlikely. However, an outcome is going to occur.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Fred Williams, posted 12-18-2001 6:12 PM Fred Williams has not replied

lbhandli
Inactive Member


Message 60 of 70 (981)
12-19-2001 6:36 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Fred Williams
12-19-2001 5:38 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Fred Williams:
Now, how do you propose these valves evolved? Natural selection cannot help because the valves are useless until functional.
Natural selection could well select for a feature that develops into a full valve as that reduces the blood flow back down. Any reduction in the pressure would be useful if not fully function according to the current state of a giraffe. At this same time, the giraffe ancestor would not have had as much pressure because the neck wouldn't be as long as now.
quote:
So you need a bunch of lucky mutations for this scenario to play out.
No, you would need mutations that are selected for. Your confusion is quite apparent in the above because no one would expect those mutations to continue in the linneage without selection. Drift would select to slowly and randomly. So while in one case you claimed selection wasn't a part of the solution, you then create a situation where it would be useful. Sorry.
quote:
The odds of this happening by pure chance is pretty much impossible.
Evolution isn't by pure chance so you are making a strawman argument. And the next time you wish to claim something is impossible by probability you need to provide the figures.
quote:
You admitted above that without selection, its an implausible scnario. Its time to listen to yourself, let go of your fairytale, and come to your senses.

You have also introduced selection into your scenario.
quote:
BTW, genetic drift is a problem for evolution. Many evolutionists realize this and reject the small population model of upward evolution. Why? Because if selection is rendered powerless, deleterious mutations will surely outpace beneficial ones since there are so many more of them.
ROTFL---selection and drift are not mutually exclusive. Deleterious mutations are still selected against by natural selection. Drift operates on neutral mutations or those mutations with only slightly beneficial or deleterious effects on the population. You need to identify these rather extraordinary claims before making them. A cursory reading of the actual scientific literature would disabuse you of these notions before you inflict them on others.
Cheers,
Larry Handli

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Fred Williams, posted 12-19-2001 5:38 PM Fred Williams has not replied

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