"In the end there must have been a creator"

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and the universe became more and more complicated

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Do you really think that you can end up with something as complex as the human brain and all of it's ability to process the sences in such fantastic eloquence - From Hot Gas???Do you really think that the context of DNA created - Itself???Do you really think that the 4 governing physical forces can produce through random chance and 17 billion years - The Machine We Call Earth and all of it's intricately balanced mechanical processes that allow life as we experience it???Do you really think that the 4 governing forces can produce living machines called humans, who are capable of intellect on a grand scale yet pale in comparision to the GRAND Intellect that - the design of the human exhibits???Of course there is no intellegent design!!!

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so TC- where is your evidence that the universe has not expanded and contracted a great number of times, possibly an infinite number of times? where is your evidence that we are not one of millions of universes that are currently part of an incredibly large cosmos?

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I commend you on your faith. I don't believe that I have ever met a Christian who had enough faith in God to submit to his will with the conjecture that you find fully enough to sustain your faith in evolution.God created, then God provided a message system to the Creation so that the Creation would know what this is all about. He created the property of time and then used that very property to authenticate his message. This message can be differentiated from the millions of pseudo-holy documents that have been produced by observing that it pontificates outside the boundries of space/time which no part of the Creation can do.

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Lizardbreath is attemping a ________________ ______ _____________.

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Hi C.K.From my perspective, the 3 blank spaces would be filled by "unapproved forum visitation" because if my wife discovers that I'm in this chat room instead of paying the bills, she'll have my randomly created via evolutionary progress Crainium.

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take 2 billion decks of cards, and pick a combination. the chances of picking the correct order is undescribably low. yet every time you lay them out, you are getting a combination. are you witnessing a miracle?

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Take 2 billion computer keyboards and line them up. Walk down the line and type 52 random keystrokes in each one of them. Assemble the resulting document from end to end. Repeat this activity trillions of times. How many times will you get a document that makes sense?Actually every time if the document fits an agreed upon context. But you would need a different agreed upon context for each possibility which is even more astronomical than just hitting upon a combination once that does agree with a sole, logical context.

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Open a dictionary and point to a word. How many times will you point at a word that you know the definition of?

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First off, the words in the dictinary are already arranged in order - by someone.Second, even if I don't know the meaning of the word, the word has an established context or it wouldn't be in the dictionary.Third, the word and word meaning are represented by symbology so that it can be recognised, duplicated and used in conjuntion with other words.Fourth, the words are designed to be used together with other words to create a sentence of higher meaning than just the sum of the words themselves. Try randomly re-arrangeing the words in the lead sentence of this paragraph and see how many times you get something useful compared to the original.So the 4 governing forces had to create the words, the dictionary, the context and the conclusions that are formed by combining the words into streams in order to get something that can exhibit life, take care of itself, reproduce and improve - all strickly by chance?I find it more plausible that a massive infussion of intellegence was nessessary to both get it all started and to continously guide the process.

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It's so elegant, it has to work. It's impossible for it not to work.

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- and it can roll uphill on it's own!!!!

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Can you tell the difference?

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I could not, and couldn't even generate maningful dialog with the proper Chinese dictionary if the whole thing was written in Chinese.But give the random dictionary to someone who speaks Chinese and it wouldn't make any sense to them either. Because randomness will not result in intellegence. There has to be an agreed upon context to give meaning to the words.

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There's no meaning in DNA, therefore talking about meaning is a non-sequiter.

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I believe that the DNA code has been likened to instruction code in a computer. The one's and zero's don't display information on the monitor screen, but in the correct syntax they are arranged in causes switches to turn on and off. This results in intellegent computer graphical displays and complex calculations occuring within the CPU. The one's and zero's didn't do the calculating. The intellegence behind the design of the CPU and the machine language did it. The one's and zero's themselves have no meaning, but their arrangement is paramont to proper computer computations.The complexity of the arrangement of the proteins in DNA dwarfs any human machine code. The code in the DNA is what is determinant for the makeup of the organism. Not just the fact that DNA protein is present.You seem to be focusing on the pressence of protein while I am highlighting the arrangement of it. It's in the arrangement that I believe shows evidence for Intellegent Design.