do you really Believe we are damned?

Rock, Nor I, it always seemed to me that since God is omnipotent Jesus never had to do anything for our sins at all, God could have just clicked his nebulous fingers & not blamed other people who may be innocent of sin anyway, especially blaming an entire species for some stupid tarts pranks in the garden of Eden. Could you imagine a christian allowing him or her self to take the blame for a murder they never committed, yet at the same time they accept that you are sinful for someone elses actions? You couldn't make it up, mate, you really couldn't....Alternatively Jesus could have got a six pack, a pizza & a video for our sins, or thrown a wild party, including inviting the Jews & the Romans to an almighty bash for our sins. Or perhaps Jesus had a quiet night in after a hard weeks prosetylising for our sins. It makes no sense whatsoever that he had to die, in fact it is negligent & wasteful of God to allow such a pointless & unnecessary sacrifice for our sins, that, let's face it, aren't ours anyway.Don't forget to be grateful.Mark------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.

Jake, No. The evidence has to be observable to all, or it's mere hearsay at best. Hence most of the "supposed" evidences of God, aren't. Anyone of any other religion could provide evidence exactly as convincing as you that another religion is true, if that were the case.Would you accept that evidence? Have you? You would be able to provide independent evidence that Jesus rose from the dead, then? Or that he was the son of God? Or even EXISTED as a biblical truth? Or that Moses parted the red sea, or even EXISTED, for that matter? Or what about the Big One, that an ID created life?No one denies that the bible was written with real places in mind, but then so was Watership Down. Or are you suggesting that rabbits can talk?Mark------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.

Jake, YES! The evidence isn't available to all, & isn't repeatable. Your Grandmother may have thought she saw the cards in the same way Schizophrenics think they hear voices. She may have been lying, they both might have been. How can you tell? Now there was an evasive answer! Perhaps I should formalise the question. Is there independent evidence that the non-trivial, & supernatural suppositions of the bible actually happened? Fair enough. But you have made a claim into having studied both sides. So, it is difficult to see how you aren't seeking "subjective" ends when you allow subjective, rather than objective evidence.I put it to you that the bible is evidentially unsupported as regards the parts that are critical to Christianity. That is, God exists, Jesus was the Son of God, he rose from the dead, the universe was created in 6-days etc. If you remove what is unsupported from the bible & you are left with what, exactly, that convinces you of the Truth? What assumptions? I am discussing with you the nature of legitimate evidence as regards the bible.Mark------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.[This message has been edited by mark24, 07-31-2003][This message has been edited by mark24, 07-31-2003]