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Member (Idle past 380 days) Posts: 876 From: Richmond, Virginia USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: do you really Believe we are damned? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
THEONE  Inactive Member |
verses from the Bible which prove that 'day' can mean 'a long span of time.' You are right... Bible verses cannot prove that 'day' can mean 'a long span of time'. However, physics can, and Einstien did, with "Law of Relativity". I guess that all depends on frame of reference, right? Hmmm... there's a thought.
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THEONE  Inactive Member |
Doctrbill, I checked out your website and have to admit... you got some interesting concepts going on there. I like this one about Shabbat,
Quote from you site: http://www.sun-day-school.us/penalty.htm
I believe this day, at one time, may have been utilized for military training. I cannot yet prove it, but this would explain a lot. Hmm... Very interesting. But I'm at loss here. Maybe I didn't read something else on your site that would clarify this abit. ps.. You know, back in the "Dark Ages" Jews were blamed for drinking blood of Christian babies and/or using that blood to bake the Passover Matza. The result was persecution (and death) of many Jews. another quote from same page:
The day is holy because, in six days the LORD made heaven and earth ... and rested the seventh day. This is what bible tells us literally. But if you search for atleast a little bit of understanding underneath you got to come up with a question...Why did he create heaven and earth in the first place??? According to Bible, it is for us to enjoy and to fulfill our purpose in life. So the whole week we work to fulfill our purpose just like God did. And on Shabbat we enjoy everything He created for us and celebrate whatever good we have "created" for ourselfs in that week. With that said, it's Friday (Shabbat) and the sun is almost setting! I already hear the war tumphet. I must hurry and get to the nearest Jewish Military Center, I mean Synagog.... Maybe this is the day when we take over the world... Shabbat Shalom! [This message has been edited by TheOne, 08-01-2003]
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doctrbill Member (Idle past 2764 days) Posts: 1174 From: Eugene, Oregon, USA Joined: |
I like your responses and have quite a lot on which to comment but I wanted to drop a quick line inspired by your last post, #77.
TheOne writes:quote: TheOne writes:
I doubt you missed anything. This is a relatively new concept for me and it came as I considered how a cessation of labor during certain phases of the moon might evolve into what Shabat (i.e. Sabbath) has become today. It seems clear to me that such a cessation might have saved lives and property at the docks of ancient Mesopotamia, in which region the practice apparently originated as an aspect of the religion of the moon-god. Hmm... Very interesting. But I'm at loss here. Maybe I didn't read something else on your site that would clarify this abit. By the time we get to Moses, the day-off seems, on the surface, to be a simple matter of good labor management. But the death penalty, which might have seemed appropriate in the high stakes shipping business at Ur, seems inordinately harsh when applied to anyone who works the weekend (if all it means is a simple day of rest). Consider the circumstances:
It certainly doesn't sound like R&R. I do not mean to say that it was always that way but come on, let's get real: - A loving God who kills you if you don't enjoy the weekend His way? It's like a reverse Weekend at Bernies! The priests, after all, worked overtime on newmoons and sabbaths, did they not? Even now the holy day of rest is often the busiest day of a clergyman's week. Any thoughts? Any evidences, pro or con?
With that said, it's Friday (Shabbat) and the sun is almost setting! I already hear the war trumpet. I must hurry and get to the nearest Jewish Military Center, I mean Synagog.... Maybe this is the day when we take over the world...
Every nation must sometime dream of taking over the world. Ancient Israel seems to have imagined that. But I expect the world turned out to bigger than anyone suspected in those days. At any rate, I can't think of more interesting characters whom I might be obliged to call Lord. Shabbat Shalom! db ------------------Doesn't anyone graduate Sunday School?
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doctrbill Member (Idle past 2764 days) Posts: 1174 From: Eugene, Oregon, USA Joined: |
Hi Jake,
There are as many opinions about what Christians believe as there are denominations of Christianity - many hundreds, at least. You may define it any way you wish. As for those who say that the days of genesis were ages, ask how the vegetation of the third age survived without the sun, which appeared in the fourth age. The text says, "the evening and the morning ..." Not "the sun rose and set." The sun is not created until the fourth day. Perhaps this study will help you understand the ancient "science" involved in this matter: FIREThe whole page deals with Aristotle's "chemistry" of creation. When you get to the end of the section on light, click on the link to a page titled: "More About Light". Ancient "chemistry" was very different from what you learned in high school. You may have to dumb down a bit in order to understand what Aristotle imagined, but the man was a genius in his own time. It is correct to say that Genesis WAS good science. It's just not good science any longer. db ------------------Doesn't anyone graduate Sunday School?
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John Inactive Member |
quote: BS. Physics can't prove a damn thing about the meaning of a word in old book.
quote: Not really. I bet you can't get even close to a plausible scenario which incorporates relativity and explains Genesis. But that is irrelevant. The authors of Genesis weren't refering to relativity. They didn't know about it.
quote: Not much of one. It reminds me of those brilliant insights people have while stoned. ------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com
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THEONE  Inactive Member |
Physics can't prove a damn thing about the meaning of a word in old book. but physics can prove and idea of a time flow in one place being different from time flow in another place with different gravitational pull.
But that is irrelevant. The authors of Genesis weren't refering to relativity. No, they were not. They were refering to heaven and earth, meaning our universe (according to my religion). Relativity is a part of the laws of our universe.
Not much of one. It reminds me of those brilliant insights people have while stoned. You should try to think outside of the box sometimes. Yeh, it is easy to follow the scientific process. But people who made any progress, even in science, had tremendous imaginagion. Let's take the same Einstein for example. He wasn't good just because he new the formulas, he was good because of his concepts (which he proved with those formulas). Science is a most powerful tool people ever invented. But as any other tool, it serves to accomplish a certain goal. And I don't want to judge anybody's goals here, but it seems that other people do.
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John Inactive Member |
quote: Gravitational pull? hmmm... I believe that would be 'with a different velocity.' It isn't the same thing.
quote: Interesting that you skipped the challenge-- the real meaty bit of my post.
I bet you can't get even close to a plausible scenario which incorporates relativity and explains Genesis. See. That is what is so irritating about einstein/genesis/six-day/relativity claims. You can't make it work without massacring both Genesis and relativity.
quote: I believe that phrase was invented by a group of people while sitting around getting stoned.
quote: You'd think so wouldn't you? Apparently it isn't all that easy, or we'd see more of it. It is probably just too much work to bother with evidence and logic and complete thoughts...
quote: Of course, it doesn't follow that tremendous imagination equals progress.
quote: So prove that you are good with your concepts and flesh out the einstein/six-days claim. ------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com
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doctrbill Member (Idle past 2764 days) Posts: 1174 From: Eugene, Oregon, USA Joined: |
TheOne writes:
There's a box labeled "PERFECT WORD, All the Answers You'll Ever Need." You should try to think outside of the box sometimes. It's a puzzle box you know. Difficult to get in ... Nearly impossible to get out. Can you hear me in there? Can you hear me now? db ------------------Doesn't anyone graduate Sunday School?
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Pringlesguy7 Inactive Member |
If you look in this thing called the bible, if you know a littlea bout it, you will realize that its original language was not in fact English, but Hebrew....so when it gets translated....their word for day....might have 5 different translations when it gets to our language, and vise versa. And I thought Einstein had the THEORY of Relativity. feel free to pick about my posts, it will make me look harder at the facts, and why I believe what I believe
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John Inactive Member |
quote: ... which we don't have. The oldest we've got is the Greek Septuagint.
quote: Might? You don't know? Allow me to point you to other discussions of this idea.
EvC Forum: When God said day did he mean an actually 24hour day? EvC Forum: "Creation Science" on astrophysics? EvC Forum: Why, if god limited man's life to 120 years, did people live longer? EvC Forum: If we are all descended from Noah ... EvC Forum: Interesting Questions for Christians Why the quibble about relativity? Its just a name. We say "theory of relativity" and "Newton's Laws of Motion." Relativity is as well supported as Newton's laws. In fact, relativity works where Newton's laws don't.------------------ No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com [This message has been edited by John, 10-09-2003]
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NosyNed Member Posts: 8996 From: Canada Joined: |
The measurement of time intervals is affected by gravity. Time is slowed in an intense gravitational field as predicted by general relativity. This has been directly measured.
http://archive.ncsa.uiuc.edu/...ia/NumRel/GenRelativity.html
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Pringlesguy7 Inactive Member |
What about the masoretic texts? I believe those were written in Hebrew. These were copied by the masoretes(they lived 300-700 years before the Septuagint would of been translated)They used a complex set of notes called Masorah. I'm not a Hebrew or Greek scholar, but I know for fact that there are different hebrew words for "God" and they all carry different meanings.(that is just one example (yes you are right, i dont know everything about translating, but you must since you called me on it, so feel free to correct me whenver you see me misquoting my greek or hebrew" Also, through the years of writing the BIble, I dont suppose that their language might change some? Becuase I know that English is the only constant language. (sarcasm)
Yes, im sure they are both well supported. But something well supported doesnt necesarily make it true (im not saying that those theories are not true)
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John Inactive Member |
quote: 'bout 1000 AD. Much latter than the Septuagint.
quote: That would put them around 1000 BC. That is wrong. The group known as the masoretes editted and distributed the text between the first and tenth centuries AD. The oldest we've got is from appr. the 9th century.
quote: The Masorah are comments about the text. They represent a thousand years of interpretation, not a guarantee of virginity.
quote: I don't get the point.
quote: Of course the language changed with time. But I don't get the point.
quote: Please be specific. What two theories? What support? And of course well supported doesn't make something true, but it is better than not supported at all. ------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com
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