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Author Topic:   Can God create another God?
Phat
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Posts: 18310
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 5 of 224 (480567)
09-04-2008 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Agobot
09-02-2008 5:10 PM


Uncharted Waters
This question has a lot of uncharted waters. Of course IF we believe that God by definition is greater than our imagination, more complex than we could ever fully describe, and the Creator/originator of us versus our imaginations being the originator of Him---then lets speculate (for it is all we can do)
1) Could God hypothetically create another God who could then vanquish the original? If so, this seems to suggest that it is, in fact, our own imaginations that have the omnipotent speculation.
Its one thing to imagine/write/visualize science fiction. It is quite another thing to speculate the attributes of a God who by definition exceeds the capability or comprehension of our own limited imaginations.
2) As regards the traditional Christian God, all that I have ever been taught about said Deity indicates that there are only two things that said Deity hypothetically cannot do.
  • Lie.
  • Cease to be God.
    Which makes me more confused than ever!

  • This message is a reply to:
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    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18310
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 8 of 224 (480571)
    09-04-2008 12:39 PM
    Reply to: Message 3 by Huntard
    09-04-2008 12:08 PM


    Re: Why not?
    Huntard writes:
    The way I see it, sure he could. I mean he is omnipotent, I really can't think of any reason why he couldn't.
    Again, its all a matter of perspective. (and belief )
    Some folks think that since God is unprovable and unknowable, the basis of definition is entirely a creation of the human mind to begin with. IOW, we ourselves define the attributes of God(gods, god, or spaghetti monsters) as we frame this topic.
    In contrast, a believer may insist that God does in fact exist and that we cannot know the full attributes behind such a deity.
    For now, lets go with your hypothesis that we are outside of it all....as observers.
    Some questions, though.
  • If the Original God (O.G. ? ) created the second one, why would they even be duking it out. Only a fool would create a potential rival who could upset the throne!
    Of course in traditional Christian Dogma, this has already occurred with the idea of Satan. Satan, remember, (according to Milton and other speculators) was never actually originally created as Satan. Rather, a cool angel was created known as Lucifer, who then decided to "raise up" and be like God...after which there was some sort of war in Heaven. Kinda makes you wonder what God must have been thinking, allowing this foolish cherub to grow and upend the status quo!!
    Erase all that for a moment, however. Lets not complicate things with existing dogma.
    We have a God. By definition, (in my mind, anyway) This God is all about love, infinite ability, and infinite fairness and goodness. We don't want to refer to the Bible, for crying out loud, for that book seemingly limits this Gods coolness. OK so far?
    Since this God can do anything, lets assume that He (She?) created all that is, seen and unseen and that He is big enough that evolution fits neatly within His overall creation scheme. OK so far?
    Now...having done everything needed to do, this God is now eternally existing outside time itself...and thus will never cease to exist, except perhaps in our puny freewill imaginations should we so choose.
    IF this God created another God like Himself, I suppose that hypothetically it would be somewhat possible, for the sake of argument. What if, however, God decided to create an infinite pantheon of Gods just as powerful as He Himself was? Would this not throw the whole concept of Monotheism on its ear? I can see it now....a vast cosmic game show.... Will The Real God Please Stand Up?

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    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18310
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 9 of 224 (480572)
    09-04-2008 12:55 PM
    Reply to: Message 7 by Agobot
    09-04-2008 12:29 PM


    Agobot writes:
    I think it's high time some of the theists acknowledged that God cannot be omnipotent. And then follow the path of logic and come to the conclusion that God as they see it is impossible.
    God can only be impossible if God is limited in definition by our logic, reason, and definition. IF God existed before humanity and was in some way responsible for creation of reality, God indirectly created the very meaning of words and logic itself. Thus, no logical argument can limit God in any way. To be fair, though, God did allow us humans to have brains and minds that can and do ask these sort of questions, so the discussion itself is logical.
    This opens up a hypothetical can of worms. IF God can do anything, God could exist and yet not exist at the same exact point in time. God could be One and yet could be an infinite pantheon. I suppose that hypothetically God could even be you and yet at the same time be omnipotently above you. (I am getting a wee bit pantheistic, I know )
    Agobot writes:
    1. Can God commit suicide(and die)? If he can, and dies in a suicide he would no longer be eternal. If he cannot commit suicide, he couldn't be omnipotent.
    Phat writes:
    Remember though that if God can do anything, He could hypothetically be alive and dead at the same time.
    2. Can God create another God and the paradox described in my previous post.
    Good question. I have not yet gotten any definite answers from Him. Lets keep speculating!

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 7 by Agobot, posted 09-04-2008 12:29 PM Agobot has replied

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    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18310
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 16 of 224 (480757)
    09-06-2008 6:31 AM
    Reply to: Message 15 by jaywill
    09-06-2008 6:17 AM


    Speculation or Actuality
    jaywill writes:
    I don't find it that usful to speculate on what could be, or why not something else.
    I give higher priority to what is seen in the Bible rather than to flighty and imaginative speculations on what or could not be - hypotheticals.
    The closest thing we see to God creating another God is Him producing a city of sons who have His life and nature, to be a corporate counterpart to Himself as a Wife or Bride.
    I, on the other hand, am unafraid to question the status quo of organized religion, absolute truth, and human wisdom apart from obedience to Gods Word, as defined by orthodox Christianity.
    Why would God allow us to have minds and yet forbid us from questioning His intentions and how we as individuals become part of His Bride?
    Many critics assert that if becoming a part of said Bride involves shutting down their intellectual and/or reasoning capabilities, they probably are not ready to embrace communion with God at this point in time.
    Does God have compassion for His Bride, whom He created (directly or indirectly) and will He allow His Bride to have her own mind, or will He insist that she conform without question?

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    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18310
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 36 of 224 (480882)
    09-07-2008 12:45 PM
    Reply to: Message 34 by Open MInd
    09-07-2008 1:11 AM


    Re: The nature of G-d
    Good post, Open Mind!

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    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18310
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 37 of 224 (480884)
    09-07-2008 12:47 PM
    Reply to: Message 35 by Rahvin
    09-07-2008 2:14 AM


    Rahvin writes:
    It's interesting to note that this "discussion" is identical in every way to a group of children comparing their imaginary friends, or arguing over the capabilities of a comic book character.
    The one difference, which I cannot prove nor can you disprove, is that God imagined you and I far before we even had the capacity to imagine Him.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 35 by Rahvin, posted 09-07-2008 2:14 AM Rahvin has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 44 by Rahvin, posted 09-07-2008 7:55 PM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18310
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 46 of 224 (480960)
    09-08-2008 3:24 AM
    Reply to: Message 44 by Rahvin
    09-07-2008 7:55 PM


    Rahvin writes:
    Galactus is a primal force of nature spawned at the dawn of the Universe, so he existed long before Stan Lee wrote about him in the Fantastic Four comics!
    In that case Galactus serves as your archetype for what I am describing.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 44 by Rahvin, posted 09-07-2008 7:55 PM Rahvin has not replied

      
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