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Member (Idle past 6155 days) Posts: 690 From: USA West Coast Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Evolution is NOT science: A challenge | |||||||||||||||||||||||
riVeRraT Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Nothing. But what does that have to do with the TOE?
Becasue the implimications are that TOE disproves Gods creation.I understand that not everyone thinks that way. This is what I'm trying to point out here, and why TOE is sometimes like a religion to people. you know its ok for evolutionists to put together a bunch of facts then fill in the gaps, and then call it true its ok. But when a creationalist points out a bunch of facts and says TOE is like a religion, thats not ok.It can't actually be a religion, or can it? I don't know, if you spend your whole life preaching it, and trying to prove it, and devoting yourself to it. Thats pretty much what I would like to do with God the rest of my life. So tell me, whats the difference?
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Becasue the implimications are that TOE disproves Gods creation. Nonsense. TOE has never had anything to do with GOD or creation. Now the Creation Myth in Genesis is something else. It is, of course, falsified internally, Genesis one and Genesis two tell two different and mutually exclusive stories. It's like GOD saying "Listen folk, here is proof you cannot take this literally!". The TOE had nothing to do with disproving Genesis.
But when a creationalist points out a bunch of facts and says TOE is like a religion, thats not ok. It can't actually be a religion, or can it? It's okay to try to say that but it is still not true. So far, no one, including you, has been able to show and facts that would make the TOE a religion.
So tell me, whats the difference? Big difference. When something comes up that cannot be explained by the TOE it will be modified, expanded or replaced. When evidence proves that the creation myth from Genesis is false, the Creationists try to fudge the data or insert miracle here to hold onto their theory. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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ramoss Member (Idle past 612 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
Well, no, TOE does not have anything to do with proving/disproving 'god's creation'.
It does disprove the literal interpretation of Genesis, but it is obvious that it is an allegory anyway.
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Loudmouth Inactive Member |
quote: This makes humanity look really guilty of horrific acts. Take sub-saharan africa. Right now, certain countries have a 25% HIV infection rate. That is right, 25% of the populace in some of these countries are infected. Now we have a problem. Either christians are withholding this miraculous healing out of apathy or the medical field is keeping them out. OR, is this really a once in a while deal that is a fluke of the human body? No one is counting out the body's ability to cure itself in spectacular ways, but medicine is counting out the capricious actions of a supernatural deity. Now, if you are sick where do you go? To a faith healer or to a scientifically trained doctor? Christians vote with their feet, and the vast majority rely on the scientific method to cure their ails. Admittedly, they also rely on prayer, but as many have found out their prayers are usually not answered. To give you an idea of what positive thinking can do for a patient, read this article. In this study, doctors thought they were on to something with an orthroscopic knee surgery that was supposed to alleviate pain due to arthritis. What they found is that people reported the same recovery even if they were subjected to a sham surgery. Instead of actually doing the full surgery, the surgeon would make a single incision and then sew it up immediately. The mind and the body can do weird things, but often it is due to the positive attitude or the perception of the patient. The same could be said for similar effects among those who have strong faith in God. They feel comforted and strengthened by their faith and the body is better able to heal itself. Given the powers of the Placebo Effect, I would say that this is entirely possible. However, you will not see doctors handing out sugar pills to cure migraine headaches anytime soon.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
You missed the most important part.
I said most important you are a hating person. We know this because you said you hate men like me, as if you knew me. It doesn't matter to me one way or the other if you are lesbian or not.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Do you disbelieve all of science now?
Nope, but I wouldn't teach it as proven. To answer your question, the correct answer would be I don't know, and that should be the answer of people who believe in TOE.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
That is unresponsive, and it shouldn't be compared to TOE.
Also when I was taught about atoms, it was very clear that it was a theory because we could not actually see them. I'm fine with that. Germs cause desease, we know that, we just don't know exactly how.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
When something comes up that cannot be explained by the TOE it will be modified, expanded or replaced.
But most likely they will only look for something else to disprove God's existance.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
You should be called Mr. repeater, thanks.
Or maybe Mr. obvious.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Ok, so I won't go to Africa and have sex.
Healing is much more than what you think it is and probably way to complicated to go into here. But most Christains wouldn't get healed from a prayer, because they don't deserve it for reasons that only they and God would know about. Also people do go to healing places to be healed. Sometimes it works, and its all based on the person and his/her relationship with God. When someone lives in sin their whole lives, and then they are paying for their sins with desease, they then pray to God expecting a miracle. Then when the miracle doen't happen, they go to a doctor to get cured, and then they are mad at God or don't believe in him anymore, I think thats pretty funny how people could justify that in their minds. Its all in the bible how it works. Of course I am not talking about all people, because everyone's case is different.
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nator Member (Idle past 2169 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Do you disbelieve all of science now? quote: Right. I wouldn't teach it as proven either. As I have been saying, NOTHING IN SCIENCE IS PROVEN. However, do you think we should teach the best current explanations (theories) that we have that explain the evidence?
Is it your point that if there are any gaps in the evolutionary history of a species, we cannot say that it has evolved at all, is that correct? Yes or no. quote: So, you "do not know" if any creature anywhere has ever evolved AT ALL? You "do not know" if we have observed any change in the alelle frequencies in populations over time? Is this the case with you? This message has been edited by schrafinator, 08-24-2004 09:24 AM
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
But most likely they will only look for something else to disprove God's existance. Repeating things that have been proven wrong does not help a discussion. The TOE does not say anything about whether GOD exists or does not exist. You need to stop asserting that it does or that science does. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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nator Member (Idle past 2169 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Then you were taught poorly or you didn't retain what you were taught properly. Being able to literally "see" some kinds of scientific evidence does not have any bearing whatsoever on if the related explanation of why the evidence appears as it does qualifies as a theory or not. Is the Atomic Theory of Matter true "enough" for us to teach it as true in science class? Yes or no?
quote: Um, what? Of course we know how many, many germs cause disease. Is the Germ Theory of Disease true "enough" for us to teach it as true in science class? Yes or no?
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nator Member (Idle past 2169 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: But what about the Christians who do deserve it but who don't get healed anyway? What about all those sick Christian children who believe in God with all their innocent, pure hearts and who have never done anything that any reasonable person could construe as terribly sinful? Why do they die?
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Also people do go to healing places to be healed. Sometimes it works, and its all based on the person and his/her relationship with God. Don't even start down this path unless you want a severe whomping. Many years ago, back in the late 50's when I was a volunteer fireman and ambulance attendant, I was among the first responders on a call for two kids that had been electrocuted. The elder of the boys, about eight, had touched a faulty sump pump and been shocked. His younger brother, about six, tried to pull him away and also got electrocuted. When I arrived I used one of the pike poles from the truck to pull the two kids off the pump and began giving the younger mouth to mouth resuscitation and attempting to restart his heart as others from the department began working on the elder boy. The oldest kid at the house, his sister I believe but it could have been a baby sitter had called us first and then the parents. I had gotten the kid's heart started when the parents arrived. They told us to stop and made us leave the kids alone while they prayed for them. IIRC, the family was Christain Scientists. Both kids died. I am completely convinced I could have saved the boy I was working on and so was the crew working on the other boy. Now there is no way that GOD could have wanted those two kids to die. Prayer is fine but don't even begin talking about Prayer versus medical care. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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