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Author | Topic: Opinions and conclusions about Religion and God. | |||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: I recently attended my Grandmother's Catholic funeral mass. I was raised Catholic, but hadn't attended a mass for years. It was so wierd. It was an altogether odd feeling to sit there through it; I felt like a complete outsider while simultaneously knowing the entire service by heart because I had been raised in that religion. The stuff that was said; the comforting platitudes and reassurances...I just sat there (as an impartial observer at times) and marveled at people's belief in this stuff. None of it had any meaning for me and I really couldn't understand how it could have meaning to anybody. ...and this is from me, a person who was raised in that religion. Forgive me, I do not wish to offend, but it all just seemed so...absurd. Regarding the supernatural, which includes God and gods, I am what people would probably call an Agnostic or a weak Athiest.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Phat, I Googled "pastor John Aker" and I had zero hits.
Tell me why you believe that story, if you don't mind.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
He even went so far as allowing himself to be crucified. Its a measure of how serious this gig is. quote: I had a friend who is an attorney, and he told me this story about one of the other lawyers who were working for a summer at the same firm just after passing the bar to see if they wanted to hire any of them. My friend is a secular Jew and was a Religion major at Oberlin College (a very good school) before going to the University of Michigan Law School (also a very good school), and the other guy was a Harvard Law graduate and also a very conservative Christian. They were seated near each other at a dinner, and the subject of religion came up. The other guy asked my friend, whom he knew was Jewish, something about the how Jews viewed the divinity of Jesus. My friend said that in the Jewish faith, Jesus wasn't God. "Just a guy", was how he put it, I believe. So then the Christian lawyer asks, in all seriousness, "But what about the miracles?" This was a Harvard Law graduate! Anyway, I relate this only to illustrate that even someone bright enough to get to this level of education can still be completely moronic (and shockingly uneducated and ignorant) when it comes to world religions, including the religion his own was borne out of.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Kissing Hank's Ass
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: ...all those references to God, and Jesus, and the Holy Spirit... It was all so meaningless and absurd.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: I mostly learned that Bright founded the Campus Crusade for Christ. What about this makes him a trustworthy source? Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
...all those references to God, and Jesus, and the Holy Spirit... It was all so meaningless and absurd. quote: Ah, so the setting in which Jesus and God are spoken of determines if I will believe or not. That sounds very much like a merchandising/marketing issue to me.
quote: They don't. Nobody does.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Nobody does (know were they will go after the grave) quote: But you don't know. Nobody does. That's my point. You believe you'll go somewhere, but you don't know.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: I have not found this to be the case. Many of the Christians I have known personally have tended to believe another Christian is scrupulous and has integrity simply because they are Christian.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
You believe you'll go somewhere, but you don't know. quote: That answer is a bullshit derailing tactic, and I'll thank you to not use it again. You believe that you will go somewhere, but you don't know that you will. You cannot know because it is unknowable. Nobody knows, but they may believe.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: You are equating "knowledge" and "belief". I am not. There is no circularity on my part, iano, only your bullshit semantic games.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: I know that there is a place called Wichita in Kansas, USA. I can go there. I can bring other people there. I can take photos and videos and even become a resident for a while before returning. But even if I never go there, there is abundant evidence that such a place exists, and I certainly could visit Wichita if I truly doubted it's existence. How do you know (rather than believe) you are going to heaven after you die? Show me. Photos, video, whatever. Take me there. Show me bus schedules, or it's location on a map. If you cannot (and I know you can't) then it simply illustrates my point. Whether there is an afterlife/heaven/hell/whatever is a non-empirical question. There is no way to know the answer. One may believe that they are going to heaven, but there is no way to know.
quote: Then you are using your own definition of "know/knowledge" which equates it with "believe/belief". (aka iano's semantic games) If you were using the terms as I am, as they are generally understood, there would be no need for you to use a circular argument. In fact, why don't you define your terms, here and now?
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: See, this is where your definition departs from the generally used definition of "know/knowledge". It is certainly different from the one I use. There is plenty of empirical evidence, beyond your own assertions, that you exist. If you want to use your more personal, reductionist definition of "know/knowledge" as you have indicated, then you seem to be saying that it is impossible to know or have knowledge of anything at all. This means, according to you, that empirical knowledge and non-empirical belief are the same thing. Edited by schrafinator, : spelling
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Iano, is there a difference in the meaning of the word "know" as it is used in the following two statements?:
"I know what happens when one mixes vinegar and baking soda together." "I know, in my heart of hearts, that he will come through for me in my hour of need." Edited by schrafinator, : spelling again
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Iano, is there a difference in the meaning of the word "know" as it is used in the following two statements?:
"I know what happens when one mixes vinegar and baking soda together." "I know, in my heart of hearts, that he will come through for me in my hour of need."
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