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Author Topic:   Is God Omnipresent?
Mr. Ex Nihilo
Member (Idle past 1357 days)
Posts: 712
Joined: 04-12-2005


Message 73 of 86 (296558)
03-19-2006 1:57 AM


No. He's nt -- IMO
I'll note that the concept that God is omni-anything is suspiciously missing from traditional Christian theologies prior to Keirkegard. Following this, Kant seems to start with teh assumption that God can do the logically impossible -- which is also missing from traditional Christian theologies.
So, for example, is one asks, "Can God sin?" The answer, in traditional Christian theologies, is no. Therefore, God is not omnipotent.
For another example, is one asks, "Can God be reside forever within hell?" The answer, in traditional Christian theologies, is no. Therefore, God is not omnipresent.
Similarly, is one asks, "Can God know what is happening in hell after all has been restored?" The answer, in traditional Christian theologies, is no. Therefore, God is not omniscient.
Many people seem to get tripped up on these kinds of questions. But I'll note that these questions do not pertain to how many percieve the Christian God. People can make comparisons if they like, but, if they're seriously considering the traditional idea of the Christian God, they need to realize that these questions have already been answered.
Omnipresent? no. Most present? yes.
Omnipotent? no. Most potent? yes.
Omniscient? no. Most prescient? yes.
This message has been edited by Mr. Ex Nihilo, 03-19-2006 02:00 AM

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by ReverendDG, posted 03-19-2006 2:13 AM Mr. Ex Nihilo has replied

  
Mr. Ex Nihilo
Member (Idle past 1357 days)
Posts: 712
Joined: 04-12-2005


Message 75 of 86 (296594)
03-19-2006 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by ReverendDG
03-19-2006 2:13 AM


Re: No. He's not -- IMO
ReverendDG writes:
I agree with all of this, i am starting to develope the view that, since god is god, we say things like he is omnipotent, etc because god is more powerful than us.
We do not know if he can do the imposible or just the things we can't do, maybe he has the power to stop objects in motion but he can't stop time or be subject to things that people would think conflict with thier religion, such as doing evil, which IMO does limit god.
god in the traditional religions make him none of the things people say it is
Thanks for the feedback ReverendDG.
I guess I'll just add three additional qualifiers of where I do believe God is in some way omni...they seem to be centrally focused around his will.
I think that God's will, in the traditional Christian sense, is omnibenevolent -- that is, everything he does is out of goodness and whatever happens to humanity will involve the least amount of evil possible.
I also think that God's will, in the traditional Christian sense, is omnidirectional -- that is, all things work according to his greater purpose even when others chose not to follow his will.
In addition to this, I think God's will, in the traditional Christian sense, is omnisentient -- that is, his will has always been around since eternity past and his will will always exists into infinite future.
In other words, I think God is his own self-contained reality and he is dependant on nothing else to sustain his being. But, just to be clear in comparing the contrasts between various thoughts of God, I would sum up my own thoughts as follows...
Omniscient? no. Omnibenevolent? yes.
Omnipresent? no. Omnisentient? yes.
Omnipotent? no. Omnidirectional? yes.
The differences might be nearly subliminal, but I think it makes a big difference in how one perceives God.
This is all in my own opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by ReverendDG, posted 03-19-2006 2:13 AM ReverendDG has not replied

  
Mr. Ex Nihilo
Member (Idle past 1357 days)
Posts: 712
Joined: 04-12-2005


Message 77 of 86 (296678)
03-19-2006 10:37 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by Phat
03-13-2006 7:34 PM


Re: what does OmniPresent mean
Phat writes:
I was always taught that the "other spirits" could not be aware of what was happening in all places at once. They could somehow communicate with each other through conduits such as gossip and the media...(Im sticking with my original premise that humans are a necessary conduit of evil)
I tend to agree. In fact, I think that demonic agencies cannot exist without some type of agency that is still connected to God.
Phat writes:
Its not that the demons use us. We use them. God observes all of it---every bit of our behavior---and I believe that He wants us to realize that He is there and that He cares about our behavior.
I actually think it's the opposite -- they use us to stay alive.
So, for example, it could be saids that man is the "dust of the earth" upon which the adversary feasts...
Genesis 3:19 writes:
. for DUST you are, and unto DUST shall you return.
It seems as though when God told the serpent that he would eat dust, he seems to be telling him that he would eat humanity. And this is fairly well what Peter tells us in his epistle:
I Peter 5:8 writes:
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walks about, seeking whom he may devour.
I also find it interesting, in contrast to the adversary consuming us, that Christ offers us his body and blood to consume in the Lord's Supper.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Phat, posted 03-13-2006 7:34 PM Phat has not replied

  
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