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Author Topic:   Judging one another, in scripture and in general
iano
Member (Idle past 132 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 20 of 63 (324292)
06-21-2006 9:39 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by mike the wiz
06-21-2006 9:11 AM


Re: the subtle difference
Faith, I think you're totally wrong. You've baked some bizarre interpretation so that you can personally go on judging others. I advise that you don't judge others

Are you judging here Mike? Judging Faith to be wrong?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by mike the wiz, posted 06-21-2006 9:11 AM mike the wiz has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by mike the wiz, posted 06-21-2006 10:29 AM iano has not yet responded

  
iano
Member (Idle past 132 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 27 of 63 (324493)
06-21-2006 4:29 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by arachnophilia
06-21-2006 4:12 PM


Re: the subtle difference
faith, you have repeatedly judged others as not true christians. that's not "judging doctrine" that's condemning others.

If I weigh up the evidence according to the criteris of "what constitutes a Christian in my book". And a person easily fails all those criteria - does that mean they might still be a Christian according to my book? It seems if that were the case then I cannot be sure I am a Christian either for I cannot even judge myself according to those criteria. Which is patently ridiculous.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by arachnophilia, posted 06-21-2006 4:12 PM arachnophilia has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by arachnophilia, posted 06-21-2006 4:39 PM iano has responded

  
iano
Member (Idle past 132 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 29 of 63 (324499)
06-21-2006 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by arachnophilia
06-21-2006 4:39 PM


Re: the subtle difference
it's not according to your book. that's the point of this discussion. it's according to god. not you.

Failing God commenting on the matter himself (we couldn't even get Dawkins and Dembski here remember) I suppose you will be referring to a book too.

Another case of "Reading-R-Us"

:)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by arachnophilia, posted 06-21-2006 4:39 PM arachnophilia has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by arachnophilia, posted 06-21-2006 4:50 PM iano has responded

  
iano
Member (Idle past 132 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 31 of 63 (324507)
06-21-2006 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by arachnophilia
06-21-2006 4:50 PM


Re: the subtle difference
The book I suggested you would refer to is your own book - as in "In my book x,y,z" In being challenged about your book you might refer to 'gods book' for your support. As you do here presumably:

judgement of christianity, belief, faith, and mens' hearts is GOD'S. not yours. not mine. not faith's, and not the pharisees.

..I take it that you didn't lick that idea off a stone.

"according to my book" doesn't mean squat, because god makes the call. you do not. you don't even get a vote.

If "When God calls and a person responds to that call then they become a Christian and certain things will manifest themselves..." is true then one might very easily percieve whether another patently hasn't responded to that call. Thus one is in a position to comment, to exercise their judgement. All one has to decide for themselves is, is that statement true - in order to comment.

Another case of "Reading-R-Us"

yes, iano. please try to read more carefully.

I thought it wouldn't be long until your self-declared reading comprehension skills would get hauled out. D'ya ever ask Ned his opinion?

Edited by iano, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by arachnophilia, posted 06-21-2006 4:50 PM arachnophilia has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by arachnophilia, posted 06-21-2006 6:08 PM iano has responded
 Message 34 by NosyNed, posted 06-21-2006 7:16 PM iano has responded

  
iano
Member (Idle past 132 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 33 of 63 (324532)
06-21-2006 6:29 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by arachnophilia
06-21-2006 6:08 PM


Re: the subtle difference
you fail to see the obvious flaw in your logic of those "certain things" that manifests itself is compassion and acceptance of others: not condemnation and judgement.

Do you see the obvious flaw in your own logic: this limited notion is printed on the pages of your own book. There is no need to even swap stories: all a person needs to exercise judgement (to judge) is to hold that their own book is correct - it needs not anothers (yours for instance) stamp of approval.

Compassion for one lost, yes. Acceptance that they are lost, yes.

Standing by whilst they fool themselves into thinking they are Christians - compassion forbids it even to the extent of being 'tough'. (aa kind of a pr 26:5 motivation there)

Allowing them them fool others into thinking what they say Christianity is is what Christianity is. Hell no.

if i were in a position to judge, i would say that you weren't.

I'm not so reticent and in your case I don't know. I'm not sure...

the message is nothing but good for all, and if you exclude people from it, you do nothing but pervert it.

Stating that a person is not a Christian doesn't exclude them from a message they haven't gotten yet - if indeed that exercise of judgment is accurate. They would already be on the 'outside' so to speak.

knock yourself out. ned gave his opinion in the last thread -- and to no suprise, you misinterpretted what he said.

I take it that you have no problem in allowing him state whether his message was tongue in cheek or literal. I for one am curious. I'll bump it next time I see him knocking around. You do the same if you see him. Okay?

Edited by iano, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by arachnophilia, posted 06-21-2006 6:08 PM arachnophilia has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by arachnophilia, posted 06-21-2006 7:31 PM iano has not yet responded

  
iano
Member (Idle past 132 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 36 of 63 (324560)
06-21-2006 7:33 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by NosyNed
06-21-2006 7:16 PM


Re: my opinion?
A curious situation arose within the context of a recent thread which enabled you (by accident rather than design) to be an objective judge, jury and executioner w.r.t a particular sub-issue within the thread - which spreads beyond the thread and into general discussion between Arach and me. Very unusual at EvC to get something this resolvable.

But it is not mine to call on my own. Arach would have to want to go there too. I'm prepared to risk it in order to have a particular debate approach dismantled (for I find it tiresome). But am quite happy to drop it if Arach doesn't agree

Thanks for looking and not leaping. I'd wait for Arachs o.k.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by NosyNed, posted 06-21-2006 7:16 PM NosyNed has not yet responded

  
iano
Member (Idle past 132 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 38 of 63 (324562)
06-21-2006 7:41 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by NosyNed
06-21-2006 7:16 PM


Re: my opinion?
A more simple way of phrasing it would be:

I hold that that post was written tongue-in-cheek and Arach holds that it was to be taken literally.

I read it one way and Arach another. Our ability to read is the sub-issue within the thread

Oh yeah.. the post in question:

NosyNed writes: writes:

Oh, I should learn not to jump in with a flawed memory of events. Ok, I don't see how the contraction can be explained away then.

Thanks for the thanks Iano but I think you have to withdraw it now.

Your honour...

Edited by iano, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by NosyNed, posted 06-21-2006 7:16 PM NosyNed has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by arachnophilia, posted 06-21-2006 7:48 PM iano has responded

  
iano
Member (Idle past 132 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 39 of 63 (324563)
06-21-2006 7:44 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by NosyNed
06-21-2006 7:16 PM


Re: my opinion?
Forgot to mention. You do not have to give a response either. It might not be something you want to do.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by NosyNed, posted 06-21-2006 7:16 PM NosyNed has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by NosyNed, posted 06-21-2006 8:42 PM iano has not yet responded

  
iano
Member (Idle past 132 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 41 of 63 (324565)
06-21-2006 7:52 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by arachnophilia
06-21-2006 7:48 PM


Ned doesn't strike me as senile Arach. I trust he remembers his intention and is pondering more on the wisdom of commenting than anything else.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by arachnophilia, posted 06-21-2006 7:48 PM arachnophilia has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by arachnophilia, posted 06-21-2006 7:55 PM iano has not yet responded
 Message 51 by NosyNed, posted 06-21-2006 8:45 PM iano has responded

  
iano
Member (Idle past 132 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 43 of 63 (324568)
06-21-2006 7:56 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by NosyNed
06-21-2006 7:16 PM


Re: my opinion?
On reflection Ned. Can we forget it? The result ain't worth it to me, whichever way it would fall. I'd prefer to put up with Arachs debate method. Like it's not that I even have to debate him if I don't want to!

Thanks, sorry for the trouble.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by NosyNed, posted 06-21-2006 7:16 PM NosyNed has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by arachnophilia, posted 06-21-2006 8:00 PM iano has responded

  
iano
Member (Idle past 132 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 45 of 63 (324575)
06-21-2006 8:12 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by arachnophilia
06-21-2006 8:00 PM


Re: my opinion?
Given that our relative strength in the reading department remains undecided by objective decision (something which you saw the need for as much as me here) can you now halt supposing objective superiority in that self-same department when we debate next?

:)

Edited by iano, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by arachnophilia, posted 06-21-2006 8:00 PM arachnophilia has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by arachnophilia, posted 06-21-2006 8:16 PM iano has responded

  
iano
Member (Idle past 132 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 47 of 63 (324579)
06-21-2006 8:26 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by arachnophilia
06-21-2006 8:16 PM


Re: my opinion?
I quite like the notion that objective superiority in reading skills remains an unresolved issue. Given that I haven't been claiming it makes it a win for me - relatively speaking

All without losing anything?

There's poker for you.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by arachnophilia, posted 06-21-2006 8:16 PM arachnophilia has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by arachnophilia, posted 06-21-2006 8:34 PM iano has responded

  
iano
Member (Idle past 132 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 50 of 63 (324584)
06-21-2006 8:44 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by arachnophilia
06-21-2006 8:34 PM


Re: my opinion?
because you're wrong

Perhaps. But I doubt I'll hear arguments containing the implication "objectively superior reading skills" again after this.

That is sufficient for me. Showing my hand gains me nothing. Were I to 'win' all that would achieve would be your nose getting stuck in a pile off shite. And vice versa were you to 'win'. Neither option strikes me as particularily desirable.

A good poker player quits while he is ahead. Fools gamble everything


This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by arachnophilia, posted 06-21-2006 8:34 PM arachnophilia has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by iano, posted 06-21-2006 8:45 PM iano has not yet responded
 Message 54 by arachnophilia, posted 06-21-2006 9:01 PM iano has responded

  
iano
Member (Idle past 132 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 52 of 63 (324586)
06-21-2006 8:45 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by iano
06-21-2006 8:44 PM


Re: my opinion?
But then some gunslinger comes into town and holds up the joint!

:)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by iano, posted 06-21-2006 8:44 PM iano has not yet responded

  
iano
Member (Idle past 132 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 53 of 63 (324591)
06-21-2006 8:59 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by NosyNed
06-21-2006 8:45 PM


Re: I thought my intention was clear
I'm wondering what the heck you are on about though.

Don't worry, the question asked was only tongue in cheek vs literal reading of your post. There are no chips left to play in that particular game.

Pass the bucket of shite

:)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by NosyNed, posted 06-21-2006 8:45 PM NosyNed has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by arachnophilia, posted 06-21-2006 9:03 PM iano has not yet responded

  
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