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Author Topic:   How Likely Is It Jesus' Got Married
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 2134 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 81 of 109 (343790)
08-26-2006 9:53 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by Hyroglyphx
06-10-2006 2:26 PM


Where`s the gossip?
Furthermore, given the fact that hardly any ancient documents survive decay, that a multitude of early Christian and secular sources should have survived is miraculous even by naturalistic standards.

Close to a thousand manuscripts written by an obscure sect survived from roughly the same time period. Odd how the more numerous Christian body failed to deliver. Too many missing periods in Jesus` life. Nothing on the deaths of the giants, Peter and Paul. Nothing on the subsequent proselytising and deaths of the apostles. Contradictions galore in the Gospels. Even the Jewish authorities thought it of so little moment, they couldn`t be bothered putting pen to papyrus. All those miracles and only the Christians noticed?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-10-2006 2:26 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-29-2006 11:45 AM Nighttrain has responded

    
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 2134 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 85 of 109 (344469)
08-28-2006 9:15 PM


All meat and no potatoes
Dunno, with the present neurotic Christian preoccupation with sex (homophobia, abortion, birth control, celibacy, etc.), and digesting all that blood and bikkies in their ceremonies, there has to be a reluctance to give Jesus any qualities of the flesh. Contradicted by the fascination with a tortured body hanging on a cross. Ah, the wonderful world of the believer.
Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by Thugpreacha, posted 08-28-2006 11:31 PM Nighttrain has not yet responded

    
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 2134 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 103 of 109 (345680)
09-01-2006 9:24 AM
Reply to: Message 94 by Hyroglyphx
08-29-2006 11:45 AM


Re: Where`s the gossip?
What are these obscure manuscripts you refer to that are in the thousands?

Near to a thousand, I said. The Qumran Scrolls. Odd that a great scholar like yourself hasn`t heard of them? :-p

Because the details of His younger life aren't important to His message. He was asked by His mother to change water to wine, indicating that everyone was aware that there was something special about Jesus, but He went on to say that it was not yet His time to reveal Himself as the Moshiac. He had one purpose and that was to be the Moshiac. He revealed Himself at the time when Halacha states that its lawful for one to become a Rabbi. Everything Jesus did was according to the Law.

Jesus is regarded as having lived approximately 33 years. Apart from the infancy tales and three years preaching the message, we know next to nothing of the missing 30 years. No information of the teachers who taught him, no news of how he earned a crust, hell, we don`t even know whether his father deserted the family. He arrives full-blown, fully equipped for battle and his followers never asked a question?

The water/wine, like the seven signs, may be peshers for all we know. Oh, I forgot, you don`t know anything about the Scrolls.

The giants, I assume, you are speaking about Nephilim or the Annakim? There is mention of it in the Dead Sea Scrolls. Aside from that, it really doesn't mean much to our salvation. Its just an historical accounting. As for Peter and Paul's deaths, why should it surprise you that their deaths aren't recorded Biblically? It obviously means that their epistles were written by them and that their deaths occured after their writings took place. So, how is it that they could write of their own death? That's just asinine. As for speculation of their deaths, there are lots of different versions. Paul was reputedly assassinated in Rome and Peter was said to have been crucified upside down on a cross next to his wife.

Nothing to do with the Nephilim. The heads of the faith, Peter to the Jews, and Paul to the Gentiles were supposedly the ones anointed by Jesus to lead the missions. Their deaths don`t have to make Acts. Surely followers were literate enough to describe the ends of their leaders. Where are the histories? No one said they wrote of their own deaths. Even if Moses is claimed to have done it. Christians were writing of less outstanding events soon after, but nothing of the end of their leaders, except wild unsubstantiated rumours? Even James gets a small mention.

The Flavian references have long been recognised as Christian interpolations, not surfacing until the time of Eusebius, 300 years later. Y`know Eusebius, who said it was o.k. to lie for his church.

Lucian of Samosata (c.120-180) was not a contempory of Jesus or the early church.

Tacitus was not a contempory of Jesus or the early church. His Annals are dated c.115.

The only descriptions we have on that period are hearsay/secondhand by writers who never met the real Jesus, but related stories which contradict each other.

The oddest thing I find about Paul`s writings, apart from the denigration of the Jerusalem elders, is the failure to give a description of Jesus. I can understand new converts in Jerusalem not asking the question as they MAY have seen Him preaching, but Gentiles in all of Paul`s journeys never pop the question 'What did He look like?'


This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-29-2006 11:45 AM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-01-2006 1:30 PM Nighttrain has responded

    
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 2134 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 105 of 109 (345840)
09-01-2006 8:42 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by Hyroglyphx
09-01-2006 1:30 PM


Re: Where`s the gossip?
(sigh) I feel like I`m back in kindergarten class. One step at a time.The point of the discussion is the presence or absence of documents relating to the period contemporaneous with the life of Jesus. O.k.?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-01-2006 1:30 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-02-2006 10:46 AM Nighttrain has responded

    
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 2134 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 109 of 109 (346547)
09-04-2006 8:33 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by Hyroglyphx
09-02-2006 10:46 AM


Re: Where`s the gossip?
We're dealing with whether or not Jesus being married in annotated in any ancient documents. There are none, least of all, the Dead Sea Scrolls as you suggested. So, I guess the thread is over since there is no reasonable justification to assume that Jesus was married in His physical body. But to be sure, Jesus is married spiritually, to His bride, the Church.

The confusion is all yours, Jugs. I said that an obscure sect managed to convey close to a thousand documents from that time period (with NO mention of Jesus since I didn`t bring that up, you did),whereas we have next to no documents from Christians, Jews, Romans, passers-by, except for Paul`s writings which came later, followed by the Gospels which came even later, that mention the existence of Jesus. Even Josephus wrote after the fall of Jerusalem. The 'scribes' of 'Scribes, Pharisees' fame never recorded the confrontations with the proto-Christians, nor wrote of any miracles. Even the court case against the wilful destruction of private property, i.e, a thousand piggies, seems to have been mislaid.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-02-2006 10:46 AM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

    
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