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Author Topic:   How Likely Is It Jesus' Got Married
ringo
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Posts: 17549
From: frozen wasteland
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Message 9 of 109 (315858)
05-29-2006 1:11 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by igor_the_hero
05-28-2006 11:41 PM


Re: The Church
I'm really not getting anything out of your post at all. You're going to have to flesh it out a lot more.

Igor_the_hero writes:

Jesus is the only perfect person.(Born of a virgin, remember?) So what would it mean if he had kids?

Just off the top of my head, I'd say it would "mean" absolutely nothing if He had kids. Is having kids some kind of "imperfection"? How would having kids change His teachings?

It just doesn't match up with what the Bible says that marriage is to be displayed and stuff.

So, what does the Bible say "that marriage is to be displayed"? What does the Bible say that would make any difference in whether or not Jesus was married?

Give us something to work with here. :)


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ringo
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Posts: 17549
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 35 of 109 (316292)
05-30-2006 1:57 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Thugpreacha
05-30-2006 12:52 PM


Re: The Church
Phat writes:

If He were not actually the unique Son of God but rather merely another in a long line of human teachers, would that affect the source and origin of your personal faith?

No.

The message is valid because it makes sense: "love thy neighbour" just works out better for everybody. If "the unique Son of God" came along with a message of "flood they neighbour", would you buy it?

... do you actually think that you yourself are the source of this power and ability?

I get by with a little help from my friends. :)

I suppose that theoretically Jesus COULD have been married, although I think that the symbolism is that we all are His family.

Don't confuse symbolism with reality.

Jesus said that (symbolically) all men are His brothers. That doesn't mean that He didn't have real biological brothers. Similarly, if the church is (symbolically) His wife, that doesn't mean that He didn't have a real biological wife.


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ringo
Member
Posts: 17549
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 38 of 109 (316396)
05-30-2006 8:02 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Thugpreacha
05-30-2006 7:03 PM


Re: The symbolism of Christianity
Phat writes:

Topic: How likely is it that Jesus Got Married?

Yes. So I won't get into the question of the virgin birth or the myth of original sin. :)

Jesus would have no need for marriage because... He did not need to have communion with a woman to feel completeness in Himself.

I don't think any man (or woman) needs to be married to feel "completeness" in themselves. But if Jesus was truly human, He certainly would feel a need to "have communion with a woman".


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ringo
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Posts: 17549
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Message 66 of 109 (317000)
06-02-2006 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by NosyNed
05-29-2006 1:44 AM


Re: Having kids
NosyNed writes:

Didn't Jesus' Dad have a kid -- out of wedlock and with a woman married to another?

Y'know, Ned, I didn't get your joke at first (just a dumb stubble-jumper from Saskatchewan). I always capitalize God's name in all its forms, but I didn't notice when you did it. At first, I thought you were talking about Joseph.

Either way, having kids seems to have been traditional in Jesus' family. :D


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ringo
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Posts: 17549
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 68 of 109 (319970)
06-10-2006 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by Hyroglyphx
06-10-2006 2:26 PM


nemesis_juggernaut writes:

The New Testament, the Apocrypha, the Nag Hamadi, along with the other extra-Biblical accounts I provided gives us over 50 seperate sources for one man in ancient times.

There are hundreds of books that refer to Bilbo Baggins. Not much use for historical authentication.


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ringo
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Posts: 17549
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 70 of 109 (320013)
06-10-2006 3:37 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by arachnophilia
06-10-2006 3:26 PM


arachnophilia writes:

only "there and back again" is the authoritative word of tolkien

Bilbo appears in person in The Fellowship of the Ring. Need I quote chapter and verse?

(Of course, The Silmarillion is clearly fictional - mythical, e-vun. :D )


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ringo
Member
Posts: 17549
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 72 of 109 (320046)
06-10-2006 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by arachnophilia
06-10-2006 4:17 PM


arachnophilia writes:

some hold that it is the continuing word of tolkien, as given to bilbo's nephew/cousin/heir/whatever, frodo baggins.

They are the only "True Tolkienians". The rest will never go over Sea.

(This is all a nice commentary on canon and historicity - but it doesn't help the topic much, since Bilbo never married. :) )


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ringo
Member
Posts: 17549
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 77 of 109 (320132)
06-10-2006 7:10 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by Hyroglyphx
06-10-2006 6:46 PM


Re: Bilbo
nemesis_juggernaut writes:

First you say that Jesus did not even exist, now you're telling me that Bilbo Baggins didn't either?

I didn't say that. I said that both have approximately equal historical support.


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ringo
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Posts: 17549
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 79 of 109 (343554)
08-26-2006 10:57 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by Thugpreacha
08-26-2006 9:05 AM


Re: Cosmic implications
Phat writes:

Ringo writes:
... if Jesus was truly human, He certainly would feel a need to "have communion with a woman".

Heck, even communion with a woman is a challenge!

Exactly. If Jesus never faced that challenge, how could He be "fully human"?

By the way, you do know that "communion with a woman" is a euphemism, don't you? :)

Jesus was so fully devoted to His Bride....which includes all of us...that He would have no time to focus on but one significant other.

And yet He had time to go to weddings, go fishing, etc.
You seem to have a low opinion of His multitasking skills. :)

Personally, I think the idea that Jesus never "consorted" with women (another euphemism) is very misogynistic. Why else would the idea of Him touching a woman seem "dirty"?

You might as well suggest that He never went to the bathroom.

Edited by Ringo, : Spellling.


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ringo
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Posts: 17549
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 84 of 109 (344324)
08-28-2006 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by U can call me Cookie
08-28-2006 10:16 AM


Re: Double Standards?
U can call me Cookie writes:

I wonder if the same uproar occurred when people started portraying Jesus as a pale European.

I don't know, but there certainly is an uproar every time He is portrayed as an African. ;)

I would think if anybody ever represented Everyman, it should be Jesus. (And Everyman has children.)


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ringo
Member
Posts: 17549
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 89 of 109 (344578)
08-29-2006 12:53 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by Thugpreacha
08-28-2006 11:29 PM


Re: Double Standards?
Phat writes:

So a guy who doesnt choose to get married or have kids is somehow less?

Not less of a person or less of a man. But less representative of the human race.

(Psst... that's what "Everyman" means, not "every man".)


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ringo
Member
Posts: 17549
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 93 of 109 (344713)
08-29-2006 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 90 by Thugpreacha
08-29-2006 2:43 AM


Re: Double Standards?
Phat writes:

Thats what Jesus is, though. An anomoly.

Every human being is unique. But setting Jesus apart from all of us makes Him somewhat redundant, doesn't it? If He wasn't like us, He might as well just be another run-of-the-mill demigod.

He is not representative of the human race, for the human race is imperfect and fallen.

Forget about that "fallen" nonsense. You know it doesn't wash with me.

Yes, we are all imperfect, and if Jesus wasn't imperfect too, He wasn't one of us. Why should we care about Him?

The church didnt just dream that up.

"Dream it up" is exactly what the church did. It isn't in the Bible.

What is in the Bible is that Jesus was tempted, like any other man is. He resisted temptation like any other man can.

You have to quit believing these liberal scholars at these Jesus seminars....

Just between you and me, I've never read a"liberal scholar" or been to a "Jesus seminar". Give me some credit for my own thoughts, please.

... without a clue as to the workings of the Holy Spirit. They are simply extrapolating their intellectual void.

You contradict yourself. Are they devoid of the Holy Spirit or of intellect? And, by extrapolation, of which am I void?


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ringo
Member
Posts: 17549
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 97 of 109 (344751)
08-29-2006 2:18 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Hyroglyphx
08-29-2006 12:15 PM


nemesis_juggernaut writes:

Claiming that He was married and had children is to malign the gospels.

On the contrary. Claiming that you "know" He wasn't married when you have no possible way of knowing - that is misusing and maligning the gospels.


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ringo
Member
Posts: 17549
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 102 of 109 (344798)
08-29-2006 4:53 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by Hyroglyphx
08-29-2006 4:04 PM


Re: Okay
nemesis_juggernaut writes:

But if you want to think of Jesus as being married in the first century CE, then that's all you.

And if you want to think of Jesus as being unmarried in the first century CE, then that's all you, too.

It just seems to me that if He wasn't married, there's so very, very much that He couldn't possibly understand about being human. That would make Him rather irrelevant.

Edited by Ringo, : Spellinge.


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