The Psychology of Christianity and Atheism

My thesis is that both Christians and atheists come into debates with a very large psychological bias.If what Christians believe is not true, they have wasted our whole lives on a bunch of myths. Christians want Christianity to be true, they want God to be real, they want there to be a heaven where they will exist in eternal happiness. They are repulsed by the idea that their convictions are false. When Christians argue and debate evidence, they have a very large bias to look at it in a way that favors their beliefs. They have a vested interest in their beliefs being right.In the same way, if what atheists believe is not true, they will be condemned by God into eternal punishment. Atheists desire to not be responsible to a just God for their actions. They don't want God telling them what to do and what not to do. The worst thing for an atheist, as Freud said, would be to fall into the hands of "the superior power of fate." God, or "fate," stand in the way of their desire for autonomy. So when atheists debate, they also have a large bias to look at evidence in a way that favors their beliefs. They also have a vested interest in their beliefs being right.Does anyone find this psychological pressure in themselves? I do. Does anyone disagree that there is any pressure at all?

---

If you say there are no absolutes, I ask you, are you absolutely sure about that?

Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

Four minutes to move here from Proposed New Topics! Gee, you are slow, hurry it up!

---

If you say there are no absolutes, I ask you, are you absolutely sure about that?

Hi General,Speaking as an atheistic agnostic, I don't see that you have it correct as far as "I" am concerned.I would have no problem having a loving god to watch over me. In fact the idea of there being something after I die would be terribly comforting. I tried to be a Christian for many years. When I could no longer believe that I tried to follow other belief systems that "seemed", at the time, to make more sense. I truly WANTED there to be something else.I couldn't continue lying to myself though. I just could not continue pretending to something I could not convince myself of.

---

Asgara
"Embrace the pain, spank your inner moppet, whatever....but get over it"http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com
http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com

quote:

---

I couldn't continue lying to myself though. I just could not continue pretending to something I could not convince myself of.

---

Me too, Asgara.

As a Christian I don't think you have it right. If it turns out that there is no GOD I haven't lost anything. The moral code I try to follow is a good one, and I doubt that I could find a better one.If my belief system works for me, if it helps me live with others, does it really matter if it turns out to be based on a false premise?

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

First off, even if atheist's are wrong, it doesn't neccesarily mean christian are right, or that atheists would be condemned to hell. The faults with this logic are many, but the main issues are: 1.) you incorrectly suppose there are only two alternatives
2.) you incorrectly suppose that atheism is somehow tied to a desire to be either lawless or immoral.
3.) you incorrectly suppose that anyone needs to be told what to do, or that such authority figures are acutally beneficial.
4.) You suppose the existance of a god would interefere with free will, which is ironic, since christianity does have free will as one of its tenets of faith.My viewpoints may seem drastic and confrontational to some people of faith, but only because their beliefs leave little room for anyone outside their strict guidlines of religion. Frankly, I respect others faith even if I disagree with it. The only time that changes is when someone tries to force their faith on others, tamper or politically interfere with the legitimate persual of science and its education, or if people use their faith as justification to harm others.

This is not a biased view. This is a fact. The "show me proof..." thread started by moi took like 12 pages for someone to come up with something, and even then it was the classic circular argument: god is real because the bible says so; the bible tells the truth because it is god's word.I stopped reading the thread simply because I got tired of repeating myself.I would say that there is no bias on my part. Remember that I used to be a devoted christian creationist. I used to argue with my science teachers (I know, it was a bad idea, but it seemed like a good idea at the time... ticket to heaven) all the time. In other words, I know exactly the kind of confidence and closed-mindedness that's behind the christian faith. I used to be like that.

---

The Laminator
For goodness's sake, please vote Democrat this November!

As an always atheist this whole point seems silly. I no more worry about God punishing me than you do Santa Claus having you on the "naughty" list.It is hard for me to understand the fundamentalist mind set. It seems that mine is just as alien to you. I'm sure there is nothing that I can say to convince you that you haven't a clue about what I think and feel. I have no concern at all about being responsible to your God.

What Asgara said in post #4 - I finally just gave up trying to "believe" in such a self-contradictory and evidence-contradicted mishmash after nearly fifty years of trying it all out.And, if the Tooth Fairy never brings me another dime, I ain't gonna sweat it. What was that song? Dylan, maybe? "I don't mind dyin' but I hate to leave my baby cryin!" That's all death is.And yeah, I have a bias, but it's mostly that I don't like seeing young, bright minds filled up with antiscience bullcrap. And a great majority of that bullcrap comes from the Christian fundamentalists here in my part of the world.This message has been edited by Coragyps, 08-10-2004 11:02 PM

To General Nazort:Well, pretty much everything I wanted to say has been said in the above posts, so I'll just inject my own perspective on the matter.In regards to the "Does God exist?" question, I am inclined to lean towards the negative, because of the inherent contradictions within the bible and lack of scientific evidence supporting the notion, if nothing else.I won't entirely rule out the possibility that God can exist, so I guess I don't fit into the Atheist category.On the other hand, as a Luciferist, I find the notion of a sadistic, arrogant and egotistical almighty God that demands my unquestioning obedience and servitude downright insulting. To exist for the purpose of being an exhibit in a petting zoo is degrading to say the least.Even if the supposed Christian God does exist, I would still reject the first NT law (Love God). To me, creation is not justification for obedience and love, especially towards an entity that is the physical manifestation of arrogance (as described in the OT).So in answer to your question, I don't really give two figs whether I will suffer eternally for refusing to obey and acknowledge a God that I currently find no reason to believe in. The very concept of His existence and His demands disgust and offend me. If He does not exist, then jolly good. If He does, I loathe his demands all the same.I think your OP was directed to people like me, who don't really fit the defintion of Atheist (most atheists who replied asserted that what you said don't really apply to them). But unlike what yuou have assumed, it is not so much that I don't want God to exist, it's just that I find the very concept of Him insulting regardless of whether or not He really existed.Patiently awaiting your reply.

---

"Respect is like money, it can only be earned. When it is given, it becomes pittance"

General,I suppose I did feel some pressure during my high school years as I had attended church for a few years. One day I reread the Nicene creed and just honestly couldn't say I believed that Christ was born of a virgin, and I think some other things. I was tired of trying to reconcile science and other issues with the Bible.Buddhism and Advaita Vedantism and the literature of awakening are my interests now. That is my interest lie in possibilities of the transcendent rather than the supernatural. I find revelations whether christian, muslim, mormon, JZ Knight, scientology etc. to be obviously human. Buddhism is not a revealed religion in the sense of a claim that the source of the universe at some point in history delivered to a human the true story of the universe for all time.I'm here mostly because I'm interested in why so many people can't see that the Koran, Torah, Bible, etc are so obviously human documents. I used to point out that in the universe it's the irrational transcedent numbers that God prefers such as pi and e. Whereas humans who had little knowledge at math made a big deal over integers like 3 or 12. Well, the ancient revealed religions just fail the test of logic and I can't see why God would create the universe and then insist humans believe a lot of illogical stuff that contradicted the universe it created.Buddhism doesn't claim punishment of unbelief nor authoritatively require belief. The Buddha claimed that what he taught could be personally verified and the subject is not in the past but in the present mystery of consciousness and freeing it from the processes that result in suffering. I'm not a buddhist though. I never developed an interest in being a member of a religion after leaving the church.For me the area of mystery is not so called supernatural events but the prescence of consciousness. That the universe exists in this complexity and it is conscious of itself in some measure through us seems far more wonderous than the stories that revealed religion offer. I think the mystery is close at hand but it will never be a verbal truth. I think Lao Tzu has so much more insight than the ancient Hebrews when he says that the Way that can be named is not the true way, and he only calls it the Way to be able to point to it. Some Christians and Jews make such a big deal about the name of God, how that is different from idolatry I don't know. Words and images are both abstractions.Good topic!lfenThis message has been edited by lfen, 08-11-2004 12:45 AM

You've said what's been on the tip of my tounge for some time now. Post of the month nominee.

Speaking as an atheist I do not fear a just God at all. I know that I am no worse morally than many Christians and better than many.Your assertion amounts to saying that atheists are all immoral and self-deluded. Can you honestly back that up ? Or is it one big slander ?

quote:

---

As a Christian I don't think you have it right. If it turns out that there is no GOD I haven't lost anything. The moral code I try to follow is a good one, and I doubt that I could find a better one.

---

I think you will have lost a lot. You will have lost all that time you spent in church, when you could have been growing, educating yourself,doing useful things, helping people. you could have understood the world better, and more intelligently,m and contributed to it more, if you had learned about how it really is, rather than learned a comforting myth. you will have lost your freedom of will, for you surrendered it to an illusion, instead of cutting your own path.You will, in my eyes, have lost nearly everything that makes us human.AND.. if it turns out you have been worshipping the wrong vengeful god, you could be in very serious trouble.This message has been edited by contracycle, 08-11-2004 11:28 AM