Come and get me, right wingers!

With the mention of two books your whole theory fell apart, opening a Bible before telling of its origins could help you in future discussions.

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Actually, almost all of Genesis is simply cribbed from earlier religions.

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You offer no evidence for this assumption, further more it is definitely not a detriment for pieces of the Genesis to also be in other cultures.

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Of course you are free to believe whatever you want. But the belief that it is accurate falls apart about Genesis 2.

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THe only thing that falls apart is ones faith.peace

Well, do you want evidence that Genesis was cribbed from an older tradition?Read the ugartic creation myth. Look at the names of god, and the sons of god in the ugartic religion.In the Ugartic religion Yawhew was the son of EL, and one of the sons of God.In the early hebrew religion, all the names of God were different sons of El.. all assimulated into one God. The hebrew religion was the Borg of the bronze age.

I was just criticizing that statement for just being a statement."further more it is definitely not a detriment for pieces of the Genesis to also be in other cultures."

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peace

Aha! The unpronouncable Hebrew name of God is actually pronounced, "Locutus"!

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"Archeologists near mount Sinai have discovered what is believed to be a missing page from the Bible. The page is currently being carbon dated in Bonn. If genuine, it belongs at the beginning of the Bible and is believed to read, 'To my darling Candy. All characters portrayed within this book are fictitous, and any resemblance to persons living or dead is purely coincidental.' The page has been universally condemned by church leaders."
-Rob Grant and Doug Naylor

Well, have you read the Gilgamesh tales or the Cycle of Inanna. Why? The Map is not the Territory. Even if the whole Bible was no more than stories told around the fire, would Christ's message be any less important?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Ah... you got the to the crux of the matter.I notice there are two styles of christians. Those who look at the words of Jesus, and try living a moral life based on those words.And those who concentrate on his dying for their salvation. They focus on his sacrifice for THEM, and how HIS blood wash THEM clean. It seem that as long as they proclaim him as 'Lord and Savior for the remission of their sins', they don't really have to follow the message of Jesus.

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Why? The Map is not the Territory. Even if the whole Bible was no more than stories told around the fire, would Christ's message be any less important?

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No, but the reality is, is that the Bible isn't stories told around the fire, maybe by viewing the Bible that way it's easier to swallow, it simply isn't so.

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peace

Again, title was designed to spur debate. Seems to have worked. Follower of Christ? Yes.Believing a literal interpretation of Genesis? No. [b]Wavy flashback sequence[/qs]Was, until I flipped to a random page at youth group that said wives should submit to their husbands and obey them as they husbands obey God. I brought it up to a girl right next to me and she said 'well, that's the author's opinion.' I was stunned: There were AUTHORS of the Bible? I figured they were laws that were orally passed down until somebody wrote it. I knew the submitting thing was wrong, and when I realized that obviously a human being had to write it down for it to be in a book, I concluded that the Bible was not 100% correct.end wavy flashback sequence Sure could with everyone going door to door with different messages about Christ.See above for just one reason that the Bible is not entirely correct. Screw the times, what's right is right and what's wrong is wrong. If God's willing to compromise what's right then He's not a righteous God. That's not our God to do something like that, wouldn't you agree? Except it really doesn't like non-Israelis(OT).And it's perfectly okay to kill a bunch of people cause Pharoah pissed you off(Exodus)And to steal somebody else's land cause a voice in your head said it was yours.(One word:Schitsophrenia!!) Which opinion? There were a few in the Bible. [qs]Show me some verses from the OT that say this.[qs] Glad you asked! Here's a little from Exodus 21 for starters:2."When you buy a male Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, but on the seventh he shall go out a free person without debt."Sounds nice, except for the first grueling six years. Don't worry kids, it gets better."3.If he comes in single, he shall go out single. If he comes in married, his wife goes with him."I'll leave this one alone because the next one is just priceless. But just ask yourself:What if he gets married during slavery? Exodus has got it covered!
4."If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her(the wife's) master's and he(the husband) shall go out alone."Wonderful. A prime example of God's mercy at it's finest! Guess it sucks for the wife and gets being doomed. But who cares about women,anyway, because the husband gets to go out and hit some more!Oh, and read on to 21:12 for the laws concerning violence. Lotsa fun right there too!I'll write more soon but I'm getting kicked off the computer!

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Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit. http://www.BadPreacher.5u.com (incomplete, but look anyway!)

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Sure could with everyone going door to door with different messages about Christ.

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Do the christians that come door to door, do they carry Bibles?

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The point I was trying to get across is without the Bible Jesus would be harder to discover.
Was, until I flipped to a random page at youth group that said wives should submit to their husbands and obey them as they husbands obey God. I brought it up to a girl right next to me and she said 'well, that's the author's opinion.' I was stunned: There were AUTHORS of the Bible? I figured they were laws that were orally passed down until somebody wrote it. I knew the submitting thing was wrong, and when I realized that obviously a human being had to write it down for it to be in a book, I concluded that the Bible was not 100% correct.

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Did you also read the part of what husbands should be for their wives?

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And it's perfectly okay to kill a bunch of people cause Pharoah pissed you off(Exodus)

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How many plagues were there? God gave Pharaoh so many chances, notice how there were no fatalities until the last plague?

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And to steal somebody else's land cause a voice in your head said it was yours.(One word:Schitsophrenia!!)

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The land was theirs to go back to.

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Except it really doesn't like non-Israelis(OT).

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At that time the nations against the Israelites were nations that had no belief in God. Keep in mind that they were also enemies with God's chosen people.

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Which opinion? There were a few in the Bible.

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Glad you asked! Here's a little from Exodus 21 for starters:

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2."When you buy a male Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, but on the seventh he shall go out a free person without debt."

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Sounds nice, except for the first grueling six years. Don't worry kids, it gets better.

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"3.If he comes in single, he shall go out single. If he comes in married, his wife goes with him."

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I'll leave this one alone because the next one is just priceless. But just ask yourself:What if he gets married during slavery? Exodus has got it covered!
4."If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her(the wife's) master's and he(the husband) shall go out alone."

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Wonderful. A prime example of God's mercy at it's finest! Guess it sucks for the wife and gets being doomed. But who cares about women,anyway, because the husband gets to go out and hit some more!

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Oh, and read on to 21:12 for the laws concerning violence. Lotsa fun right there too!

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Hmmm... For some reason I feel I recently explained this."A historical context is always needed. The chosen people were very recently the enslaved during the time the books where slavery is condoned are talking about. When a nation was defeated the only way the remaining people of that nation would've been spared is if they became slaves. You could consider it justice for the formally enslaved Israelites to enslave their former captors. This type of slavery is quite a different kind of slavery from slavery as we've known it in America. The chosen people had to be delivered, it was his will.There's really nothing more to it. I was very troubled about some of the slavery verses I read, I found alot of them from evilbible.com, I spoke with people, some camp counselors, the speakers from a bible conference I went to. The New Testament (and Jesus alot) definitely brings closure on the ways of old, shows that society was different, that it wasn't kill or be killed, enslave or be enslaved anymore."This message has been edited by messenjaH of oNe, 08-24-2004 06:22 PM

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peace

because I'm getting confused.I said, speaking of taking the Bible literally, "Of course you are free to believe whatever you want. But the belief that it is accurate falls apart about Genesis 2."You responded, "THe only thing that falls apart is ones faith."I then asked why your faith would fall apart if Genesis is simply allegory as opposed to being taken literally?I asked to which you replied,

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No, but the reality is, is that the Bible isn't stories told around the fire, maybe by viewing the Bible that way it's easier to swallow, it simply isn't so.

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I'm not at all sure how that applies in any way to the discussion.So again, the question.Even if the whole Bible was no more than stories told around the fire, would Christ's message be any less important?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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Even if the whole Bible was no more than stories told around the fire, would Christ's message be any less important?

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Uh I already replied to this blatantly, sorry if I confused you.
Let me reword what I said. The Bible just isn't "stories told around the fire", but even if it was Christ's message wouldn't be any less important.However,
by viewing the Bible that way you are not being honest.

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peace

Can you explain what you mean by that?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Depends. I've had a couple JWs come, as well as a group of Catholics. I've also had some protestant factions come and invite me to Easter celebrations etc. Back before modern medicine, I'd say sickness would be much worse than fire and brimstone. Kills you slowly, and there's no dodging it like you could a falling brimstone. The point being Egypt as a whole shouldn't have been punished for their stupid leader even if they follow his orders for fear of getting killed for being unpatriotic. You wouldn't like it if a terrorist started wreaking havoc in a local minimall because he hates Bush's foreign policy, right? I don't buy manifest destiny. Ask a conservative, full-blooded Native American about how that works, assuming you can find one.Also:Finders keepers. So? Lots of people don't know I exist. I don't go kicking them around just because of that. Guess it sucks for any child born a non-chosen, huh? That just doesn't seem right unless you can explain otherwise. Doesn't matter. Slavery is wrong. God could've said "Israel, DONT MAKE THEM SLAVES!!!"Who would argue with that? I have no doubt God was allowing us to go our path, but please don't try to defend slavery as something moral. Who cares what the code was back then? God could've changed it in a heartbeat; just because he didn't interfere and stop it doesn't mean it wasn't wrong. Guess that idea was squelched come the dark ages, eh? Sorry, but that's how it's always been and will be for some time. Doesn't make it right.And that doesn't even begin to justify letting a male slave go and keeping his wife and kids for the rest of their lives. That's wrong. No two ways to it. You know, I took a look around and couldn't find it. I'd appriciate it if you could tell me where it is so I could have a look.Sorry, I'm not a very good topic finder.Oh, and I realize I was going to write more and got kicked off. If you'd like me to write more that's fine, but I think we've already got a discussion going on Exodus right now.Thanks again for the discussion.

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Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit. http://www.BadPreacher.5u.com (incomplete, but look anyway!)

Oh zeus, not another hardheaded christian who likes to justify evil.

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The Laminator
We are the bog. Resistance is voltage over current. For goodness's sake, please vote Democrat this November!

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Can you explain what you mean by that?

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uh, I think you can figure it out?????????????????????