Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
5 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 13/17 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   "Evidence and Faith"
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 91 of 303 (399935)
05-09-2007 12:51 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by riVeRraT
05-08-2007 9:13 PM


What if 500 people observed it.
Are you serious?
You're talking about a passage written decades after the event by someone who wasn't even there saying "oh, sure, 500 people saw it."
That's an extraordinarily easy claim to make falsely, because there's a difference between claiming eyewitness testimony by 500 people and actually having eyewitness testimony from 500 people.
Do you see? Look, I claim that I can levitate right up out of my seat. Sure, I'll do it right now.
Did you see? No? Well, 500 other people did. I swear it.
I've never understood why people find claims of "eyewitness testimony" from anyone but the eyewitnesses themselves credible. There's a very good reason that testimony about what someone else said they saw isn't allowed in courts. If you don't have the eyewitness right in front of you, or at least that specific person's testimony, no, it's not an observation of any kind.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by riVeRraT, posted 05-08-2007 9:13 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by riVeRraT, posted 05-09-2007 9:28 AM crashfrog has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 96 of 303 (399962)
05-09-2007 10:14 AM
Reply to: Message 94 by riVeRraT
05-09-2007 9:28 AM


Well my reference to the 500, was Jesus rising from the dead.
Which we have no eyewitness testimony of. None of the people who said they saw it wrote any part of the Bible. None of the people who wrote the Bible even spoke to any direct witnesses.
The claim of "500 witnesses" is not credible. It's a false claim.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by riVeRraT, posted 05-09-2007 9:28 AM riVeRraT has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 97 of 303 (399963)
05-09-2007 10:19 AM
Reply to: Message 95 by riVeRraT
05-09-2007 9:31 AM


Re: What the hell is a miracle, anyway?
The references to Santa all the time, are poor taste too, as I used to believe in Santa, and I now believe in God, and the two are strikingly different.
1) Depicted as a big man with a long white beard.
2) Held to be observing your actions at all times, sleeping or awake, and judges your moral suitability for reward or punishment accordingly.
3) Held to respond to supplication for specific rewards or actions.
4) Does not age or die.
5) Has a legion of supernatural servants who perform his will.
6) Can break the laws of physics any time to accomplish his will.
C'mon, RR. They're identical. God is Santa for grown-ups. You never stopped believing in Santa - you just changed his name.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by riVeRraT, posted 05-09-2007 9:31 AM riVeRraT has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by Phat, posted 05-09-2007 11:42 AM crashfrog has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 103 of 303 (399976)
05-09-2007 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by Phat
05-09-2007 11:42 AM


Re: Ho Ho Hoax?
I never felt as if Santa was speaking to me when I was a kid.
You got presents, didn't you? The gifts just changed when you got older.
I don't think there's a kid in the world who was fooled by the department store guy; implicitly we understood that those guys were sort of like Santa's priests, that they were there to intercede with Santa on our behalves.
When I believed that I was saved, I first felt an extreme inner change
I know. I felt it too.
It's the feeling of belonging. I converted at a Billy Graham conference and the feeling was made even stronger by the fact that while we were in the conference (at the Metrodome) the folks that earlier had so helpfully charged us 10 bucks to show us where to park the church bus came back and robbed it.
So I know exactly the feeling you're talking about, how it's rewarded by adversity, nurtured by fellowship. How it's a self-perpetuating myth that turns what should be disconfirming to otherwise reasonable people into "evidence" that never fails to confirm the faith.
No, I cannot provide any evidence externally to others, aside from my behavior.
Well shit, Phat, even the Cult of Santa has the same effect. Parents perpetuate the Judgment of Santa because it frickin' works. It's a great tool for getting your kids to behave, especially because the rest of society plays along. Parents aren't idiots. Kids aren't idiots either, but when they look around and see "independent confirmation" that Santa exists and is a real thing, not just something their parents made up, they believe it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by Phat, posted 05-09-2007 11:42 AM Phat has not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024