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Author
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Topic: Homosexuality and the bible: Round 2 - morality.
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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 503 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: 03-29-2004
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Message 1 of 276 (110186)
05-24-2004 3:35 PM
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In this thread, I asked if anyone at all could provide some references from the bible where it says homosexuality is sinful or evil or all of that besides leviticus, which I explained in full in the first post in that thread why it can't be taken literally. Not a single person could provide some valid references that answered my question. The best answer I got was from PecosGeorge, who claimed the the bible condemns homosexuality but wouldn't give any reference, "...let's just say I won't do your research for you." Read his post Message 35. However, in the congratulations thread, some people began to claim that the bible condemns homosexuality Ahem...whatever, buzsaw, WT *cough cough. Therefore, I am going to ask this question again. Where the bloody hell does it say in the bible that homosexuality is wrong? Please read the first thread first before start quoting Leviticus. Also, since you people had such a hard time last time coming up with stuff from the bible, I am expanding the topic to morality. Is homosexuality morally wrong? If so, why? I will respond to each respond accordingly. Please give me some time in between for responses from me. I temporarily do not have 24hr access to the internet. Also, please people! For the love of goodness, give support for your assertions. I will go ahead and call anyone who refuses to give support for his assertions (like PecosGeorge) an "idiot." I am sick and tired of people that are only good at giving unsupported assertions. Peace!
The Laminator
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AdminBrian
Inactive Member
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Message 2 of 276 (110196)
05-24-2004 5:44 PM
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Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
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Brian
Member (Idle past 4985 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: 10-22-2002
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Only One Unambiguous Reference.
Hi Lam,
Where the bloody hell does it say in the bible that homosexuality is wrong? In my opinion there is only one unambiguous reference to homosexuality being wrong, and that is in Romans 1:26-27. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. These verses refer to sexual acts that are contrary to nature or contrary to human custom and are seen as deying God's sovereignty . (Lutterworth Dictionary of the Bible. p.387)
Is homosexuality morally wrong? If so, why? Of course homosexuality isn't wrong, love between two people is a wonderful thing, what does it matter if they are the same sex or not? Brian.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1 by coffee_addict, posted 05-24-2004 3:35 PM | | coffee_addict has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 4 by DC85, posted 05-24-2004 9:52 PM | | Brian has replied | | | Message 5 by jar, posted 05-24-2004 9:54 PM | | Brian has replied |
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DC85
Member Posts: 876 From: Richmond, Virginia USA Joined: 05-06-2003
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Message 4 of 276 (110230)
05-24-2004 9:52 PM
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Reply to: Message 3 by Brian
05-24-2004 5:53 PM
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Re: Only One Unambiguous Reference.
isn't it something... that us Atheists/Agnostics know the Bible better then Most Christens?
My site The Atheist Bible My New Debate Fourms!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 3 by Brian, posted 05-24-2004 5:53 PM | | Brian has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 5 of 276 (110231)
05-24-2004 9:54 PM
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Reply to: Message 3 by Brian
05-24-2004 5:53 PM
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Re: Only One Unambiguous Reference.
and even that is not all that unambiguous when you read the rest of the verse. It goes on to list a litany of just about every other grevience possible.
Romans 1:28-32
28: And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29: Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30: Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31: Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. BUT...when you look at the beginning of verse two
1: Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. you see that Paul goes on to say that you should not judge based on those things .
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 3 by Brian, posted 05-24-2004 5:53 PM | | Brian has replied |
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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 503 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: 03-29-2004
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Message 6 of 276 (110237)
05-24-2004 11:00 PM
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Reply to: Message 4 by DC85
05-24-2004 9:52 PM
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Re: Only One Unambiguous Reference.
DC85 writes: isn't it something... that us Atheists/Agnostics know the Bible better then Most Christens?
Brian is not a Christian?
The Laminator
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 4 by DC85, posted 05-24-2004 9:52 PM | | DC85 has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 24 by Brian, posted 05-25-2004 6:18 AM | | coffee_addict has not replied |
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almeyda
Inactive Member
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Message 7 of 276 (110256)
05-24-2004 11:36 PM
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No one can deny that God teaches Christians to not be sexually immoral. As this is sin against the body. Homsexuality is in this category as it is unnatural. Homosexuals cannot reproduce, it is not natural and is against Gods role for men and women. Sinners obviously will not enter the kingdon of heaven and this includes the sexually immoral which also includes homosexuals. Revelation 22:15 (Whoremongers are those who practice all kinds of sexual immorality), 1 Corinthians 6:9, Romans 1:27,
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 8 by DC85, posted 05-24-2004 11:42 PM | | almeyda has not replied | | | Message 9 by jar, posted 05-24-2004 11:49 PM | | almeyda has not replied | | | Message 19 by Rrhain, posted 05-25-2004 3:09 AM | | almeyda has replied |
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DC85
Member Posts: 876 From: Richmond, Virginia USA Joined: 05-06-2003
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Message 8 of 276 (110257)
05-24-2004 11:42 PM
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Reply to: Message 7 by almeyda
05-24-2004 11:36 PM
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 7 by almeyda, posted 05-24-2004 11:36 PM | | almeyda has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 9 of 276 (110259)
05-24-2004 11:49 PM
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Reply to: Message 7 by almeyda
05-24-2004 11:36 PM
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Where does it say that Homosexuality is immoral? Have you looked? If you look at Paul in Corinthians, you will find that the verse you quoted is only part of a long litany of possible abuses and homosexuality is not specifically mentioned in any of it. But the important part is verses 11-12
11: And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
12: All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. I dealt with Romans in my post above. But Almeyda, can't you see that the folk that are telling you this stuff are just quotemining just as they do when trying to support Creationism. It is a cheat and a lie and totally dishonest. If you look at the whole books you find that there really isn't any condemnation of hopmosexuality in the Bible. If there was, it would be unlikely that there would be a Gay Bishop.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 7 by almeyda, posted 05-24-2004 11:36 PM | | almeyda has not replied |
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almeyda
Inactive Member
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Message 10 of 276 (110271)
05-25-2004 12:31 AM
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No one taught me this but the Bible. Which i believe is Gods word. It says do not be sexually immoral. It teaches in Levitcus and furthermore states that the sinners against the body and mind will not enter the kingdom of heaven. Whoremongers, remember the revelation verse?. BTW about the gay bishop this does not make it right. I heard a story in America about an athiest pastor for gods sake. This does not mean athiem is acceptable. Neither as christians who have caused so called atrocities in the past were not living according to Gods teachings. It is really only todays generation with the whole sexual rights to all foundation that trys to attack the Bibles homosexual stand. We all know it is wrong. ESPECIALLY unto Gods eyes.
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 11 of 276 (110274)
05-25-2004 12:38 AM
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Reply to: Message 10 by almeyda
05-25-2004 12:31 AM
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almeyda writes: We all know it is wrong. Well...........................No, we all do NOT Know it is wrong. Being Gay is not sexually immoral. In fact, many homosexualy couples are quite monagamous and actually have relationships that last longer than many bisexual marriages.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 10 by almeyda, posted 05-25-2004 12:31 AM | | almeyda has not replied |
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almeyda
Inactive Member
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Message 12 of 276 (110286)
05-25-2004 1:16 AM
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You are completely missing the point. It doesnt matter how many people are gay or how many bishops are gay, it doesnt matter how long a gay relationship lasts. Were talking about Gods word about it which says sex is only for a husband and wife and anything other is sexually immoral. This includes adultery, fornication, homosexuality, orgys etc. Its all included as it is all sin against the body and Gods word
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 13 by jar, posted 05-25-2004 1:26 AM | | almeyda has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 13 of 276 (110287)
05-25-2004 1:26 AM
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Reply to: Message 12 by almeyda
05-25-2004 1:16 AM
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Okay. Then support your assertion. So far, every one that you've mentioned has turned out to not support your position.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 12 by almeyda, posted 05-25-2004 1:16 AM | | almeyda has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 14 by almeyda, posted 05-25-2004 1:57 AM | | jar has replied |
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almeyda
Inactive Member
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Message 14 of 276 (110291)
05-25-2004 1:57 AM
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Reply to: Message 13 by jar
05-25-2004 1:26 AM
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And why is not Revelation 22:15 not valid?. Clearly saying whoremongers (practising in sexual immorality) will not enter heaven. What about Genesis 1:28, 2:24. God made man for women and did not make man for man.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 13 by jar, posted 05-25-2004 1:26 AM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 15 by crashfrog, posted 05-25-2004 2:06 AM | | almeyda has not replied | | | Message 29 by jar, posted 05-25-2004 10:35 AM | | almeyda has replied |
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1493 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: 03-20-2003
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Message 15 of 276 (110292)
05-25-2004 2:06 AM
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Reply to: Message 14 by almeyda
05-25-2004 1:57 AM
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Clearly saying whoremongers (practising in sexual immorality) will not enter heaven. Gay people aren't whoremongers. They're gay. If you're taking the word "whoremonger" and getting "gay" out of it, then you're not reading the Bible literally, now are you?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 14 by almeyda, posted 05-25-2004 1:57 AM | | almeyda has not replied |
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