|
Author
|
Topic: The power of prayer: in action
|
nator
Member (Idle past 2196 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
|
|
Message 15 of 304 (153544)
10-27-2004 10:56 PM
|
Reply to: Message 9 by riVeRraT
10-27-2004 1:40 PM
|
|
quote:
Well, I'm sure you thought to yourself it would be nice to have my wallet back. Since God can hear your thoughts, he answered and you got it back. He listens to all peoples prayers, not just believers.
So, If God is listening to people's prayers and answering them, then is God to blame for not helping when he loses his key again, but for good this time? Or, what if a believer constantly prays that he never loses his key, but then does. Does the believer figure that God wasn't listening?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 9 by riVeRraT, posted 10-27-2004 1:40 PM | | riVeRraT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 16 by riVeRraT, posted 10-27-2004 11:34 PM | | nator has replied |
|
nator
Member (Idle past 2196 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
|
|
|
Message 39 of 304 (153635)
10-28-2004 10:35 AM
|
Reply to: Message 16 by riVeRraT
10-27-2004 11:34 PM
|
|
I did what you said, rat. The word "orange soda" popped into my head.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 16 by riVeRraT, posted 10-27-2004 11:34 PM | | riVeRraT has replied |
|
nator
Member (Idle past 2196 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
|
|
|
Message 40 of 304 (153640)
10-28-2004 10:42 AM
|
Reply to: Message 29 by riVeRraT
10-28-2004 9:34 AM
|
|
quote:
No matter how many things good that happen to you in your life when you ask for them, you will explain away with statistics, until there is one that you can't, but even then you will try to.
Math is math, and probability is probability, rat. There's no getting around it. Actually, didn't Gil say that he would be interested in prayer claims if they didn't look exactly like random chance?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 29 by riVeRraT, posted 10-28-2004 9:34 AM | | riVeRraT has replied |
|
nator
Member (Idle past 2196 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
|
|
|
Message 42 of 304 (153642)
10-28-2004 10:47 AM
|
Reply to: Message 34 by riVeRraT
10-28-2004 10:23 AM
|
|
You said that #1 was the users fault. Then Contra asked if you would watch a small child hurt themselves beause it was their fault. He was comparing God's relationship to us with your relationship with a small child. To God, we are like small children. To blame us for #1 is like blaming a small child for #1.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 34 by riVeRraT, posted 10-28-2004 10:23 AM | | riVeRraT has replied |
|
nator
Member (Idle past 2196 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
|
|
|
Message 128 of 304 (153777)
10-28-2004 3:54 PM
|
Reply to: Message 45 by riVeRraT
10-28-2004 11:09 AM
|
|
quote:
Your requests must also be to show his glory. So praying for a winning lotto ticket is out.
What if somebody like Mother Theresa prayed every day for a winning lotto ticket because she wanted to help the poor in Calcutta?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 45 by riVeRraT, posted 10-28-2004 11:09 AM | | riVeRraT has replied |
|
nator
Member (Idle past 2196 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
|
|
|
Message 130 of 304 (153779)
10-28-2004 3:57 PM
|
Reply to: Message 46 by riVeRraT
10-28-2004 11:15 AM
|
|
quote:
Tell me in your life how thing you got away with when you were younger. Tell me God wasn't watching over you then, when your parents weren't around. I know I got away with an incredible amount of things.
What about all of the kids who don't get away with things, who are actually killed or maimed? Was God watching them?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 46 by riVeRraT, posted 10-28-2004 11:15 AM | | riVeRraT has replied |
|
nator
Member (Idle past 2196 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
|
|
|
Message 168 of 304 (153915)
10-28-2004 10:31 PM
|
Reply to: Message 135 by dpardo
10-28-2004 5:25 PM
|
|
Why would it negate faith? I think it would completely enforce it. If God isn't willing to save the destitute and suffering himself, why not send a little good luck to somone who He knows will put the lottery winnings to good use?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 135 by dpardo, posted 10-28-2004 5:25 PM | | dpardo has not replied |
|
nator
Member (Idle past 2196 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
|
quote:
For example - confirmation bias will seem pretty darn irrelevant to a guy who has been healed of cancer - and therefore - if YOU had been - let's be honest, you'd have to be mad to not believe.
THAT is why I am irrefutable mike - - HAHAHA - eat that Shraff!
Here's what someone who's cancer wasn't cured wrote.
I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But as much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking. [...] If there were life after death, I might, no matter when I die, satisfy most of [my] deep curiosities and longings. But if death is nothing more than an endless dreamless sleep, this is a forlorn hope. Maybe this perspective has given me a little extra motivation to stay alive. The world is so exquisite, with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's little good evidence. Far better, it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look Death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides. Carl Sagan, Billions and Billions (1997; p.258) [Written just weeks before Sagan's death, with full awareness of his terminal disease.]
|
nator
Member (Idle past 2196 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
|
|
|
Message 172 of 304 (153928)
10-28-2004 10:48 PM
|
Reply to: Message 158 by riVeRraT
10-28-2004 7:13 PM
|
|
quote:
I do not profess to know their life stories, or parental backrounds. I can only speak for myself on that subject. I have the same worries you do. That is why I feel a need to put an end to it.
Huh? How does this answer my question? (Great. Another 25 post back-and-forth with Riverrat where he can't keep track of his own arguments) You made some comment about it being obvious that God watches over children because they get into all kinds of trouble when they are away from their parents that should get them hurt but don't. I then mentioned all of the children who get into trouble when they are away from their parents who ARE killed or maimed. I then asked you if God wasn't watching them like he watches the others. Why doesn't God appear to protect all children, Riverrat?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 158 by riVeRraT, posted 10-28-2004 7:13 PM | | riVeRraT has replied |
|
nator
Member (Idle past 2196 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
|
|
|
Message 173 of 304 (153931)
10-28-2004 10:53 PM
|
Reply to: Message 162 by riVeRraT
10-28-2004 7:19 PM
|
|
quote:
I can give you an example. What is one of the reasons Musslims do not want Christianity in their nations. I'll give you a hint: womens rights.
Yeah, and the Puritains, Calvinists, and Catholics were really great examples of progressive attitudes towards women. ...what with the witch burning and all.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 162 by riVeRraT, posted 10-28-2004 7:19 PM | | riVeRraT has replied |
|
nator
Member (Idle past 2196 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
|
|
|
Message 174 of 304 (153935)
10-28-2004 11:01 PM
|
Reply to: Message 164 by riVeRraT
10-28-2004 7:29 PM
|
|
quote:
Unless you think you are capable of lying to yourself.
Humans lie to themselves constantly. We are very good at it, especially to avoid emotional pain. They are called "personal subjective biases", such as "wishful thinking" and "self-desception". The ability to convince ourselves of what we'd like to be true instead of what is actually true is exactly the human trait that the scientific method and rational inquiry are designed to compensate for.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 164 by riVeRraT, posted 10-28-2004 7:29 PM | | riVeRraT has replied |
|
nator
Member (Idle past 2196 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
|
|
|
Message 176 of 304 (153938)
10-28-2004 11:07 PM
|
Reply to: Message 171 by riVeRraT
10-28-2004 10:47 PM
|
|
But if death is nothing more than an endless dreamless sleep, this is a forlorn hope. Maybe this perspective has given me a little extra motivation to stay alive. quote:
To me that statement was his own inner self telling him that life does indeed go on. He just didn't want to accept it.
To me YOUR statement is your own inner self telling yourself the lie that you think you know what happens after you die, even though you have no idea and are actually terrified. You just don't want to accept it.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 171 by riVeRraT, posted 10-28-2004 10:47 PM | | riVeRraT has replied |
|
nator
Member (Idle past 2196 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
|
|
|
Message 177 of 304 (153939)
10-28-2004 11:09 PM
|
Reply to: Message 175 by Coragyps
10-28-2004 11:03 PM
|
|
quote:
Schraf - don't forget today's Southern Baptists and Church of Christ....
Oh my, did I leave them out? Shame on me. I have to go submit to my husband's will now.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 175 by Coragyps, posted 10-28-2004 11:03 PM | | Coragyps has not replied |
|
nator
Member (Idle past 2196 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
|
|
|
Message 200 of 304 (154070)
10-29-2004 9:42 AM
|
Reply to: Message 179 by riVeRraT
10-28-2004 11:17 PM
|
|
quote:
To me this is YOUR own inner self imagining that I am a nut case,
Look, I'm not the one who hears voices inside his head telling him to do things.
quote:
and you think that what you really feel in your heart about dying is a lie.
Maybe it is. No way to know, is there?
quote:
When does it end, and who is right?
That's my point. Nobody knows. Nobody. Anybody who is sure is fooling themselves.
quote:
Thats right everyones a nut, except you.
Everyone who hears voices inside their head that tells them to do things is most likely a nut, yes. Or self-deluded.
quote:
We are all scared little pip-squeaks, terrified of dying.
Aren't you doing everything you can to get into heaven? Aren't you even a little bit scared of going to hell?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 179 by riVeRraT, posted 10-28-2004 11:17 PM | | riVeRraT has replied |
|
nator
Member (Idle past 2196 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
|
|
|
Message 201 of 304 (154071)
10-29-2004 9:46 AM
|
Reply to: Message 180 by riVeRraT
10-28-2004 11:20 PM
|
|
quote:
I also feel like God watched over me when I was ignorant of him.
So why didn't he watch over and help others who were killed or maimed? It's looking more and more as though your God is pretty indistinguishable from random chance. That's what the statistics have always shown, anyway.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 180 by riVeRraT, posted 10-28-2004 11:20 PM | | riVeRraT has replied |
|
™ Version 4.2