The power of prayer: in action

Explain to me what the definition of these whims is? In other words, what is fortune?

The purpose of prayer is not merely to get miraculous answers to everyday or extraordinary problems. The purpose of prayer is to develop a better relationship with God. God already knows our needs, and His desire is for a better relationship with everyone whom He draws unto Himself.Jesus even prayed, and you would think that Jesus, being God incarnate, would already have a fairly decent relationship with His Father...yet Jesus still prayed, often for long amounts of time.The purpose of prayer, drawing from the example of Jesus, is for communion and relationship with God and not a Major Nelson/ I Dream of Jeannie hookup. (By the way, I wonder if Jeannie finally made the Major rich and that is why he became J.R.?) Oh well...This message has been edited by Phatboy, 10-28-2004 04:57 PM

Do "bad things" kill people, or do people kill people? In a broad sense, more prayer would have prevented 9/11. If more Americans prayed, they would have become more like Christ by the relationship and impartation through prayer. Instead of becoming a proud and arrogant nation of Capitalists, the country would have become a kinder, gentler benefactor for the world to respect.Quite possibly, radical Islam would have been less powerful of an adversary to a benevolant people, and although America may have been materialistically poorer by virtue of sharing the wealth, we as a praying people would have truly been a nation that discrimated against no other group or belief.We may STILL have been a secular governing nation with a better overall conscience. Effective and consistent prayer may well have prevented 9/11, however.This message has been edited by Phatboy, 10-28-2004 05:07 PM

One time, shortly after I first got saved, I was lying down and feeling peaceful and empowered by my new relationship with God. It is hard to describe the feeling to a non believer, so I can only say that for the first time in my life I KNEW that God was present with me. Suddenly, a presence swirled around me and I distinctly heard high pitched voices telling me that I was still in bondage.."Why don't you f***in pray?" Is what I remember them saying in a taunting way. I did pray, and as if by magic, the literal cloud of emotional deception lifted off of me.On a strict scientific level, we have not proven the effectiveness of prayer beyond the same level as talking to plants makes them grow.
On a personal level, many many people have reported that prayer works.
One mans God is another mans scotch and water, but I believe that prayer works because of who God is, rather than because of faith in faith.

It is interesting when observing European History how the "church people" who claimed God as the divine source of revelation were very conservative, absolutist, and patriarchal.The cultural changes that led to the Rennaissance and, later, to the Enlightenment were based on thinking outside the cathedral, so to speak. I have followed this discussion with great interest. two points seem to be proven to me.
1) There is more than one view on any event, and it often pays to have a rational, logical approach rather than an emotional, passionate one. I would not go so far as some do and mock the concept of God, however. You are free to do so, of course.There will be times in your life, however, where logic and science will be unable to comfort you. I do agree with you, Scraff, in that religious people have often been more callous towards their fellow humans than many of the enlightened thinkers. What a paradox!2) What is the fascination with spirituality by otherwise unspiritual people? Are they fascinated by the bizarre reasoning and belief paradigms within believers? Did it ever occur to them that a world without a Deity ultimately deifies self? Human potential! You need not worship a "sky daddy" when you yourself shall someday become one!This message has been edited by Phatboy, 10-29-2004 10:06 AM

I have seen many puzzling events in the world of churchianity. I have been deluded at times. I have been in awe at times. I have been emotionally manipulated, yet I have by all of my internal measures been influenced by the Holy Spirit as well.We can not nor should not try and prove anything to a non believer except one thing. By our actions and our attitudes, we can show the non believers that our lives are better and that our minds are clear.They may never accept the God that we know, but we will have done our job of presenting Him in a good light and not a sideshow of freaky behavior and delusions of grandeur. It helps to step back and remember how they see us. We may be the only Jesus that they will ever meet.

One of the claims tossed about by some atheists and science minded skeptics is that Christians by and large engage in circular reasoning, baseless assumptions, and non provable assertions.
Why do they do this? If we were studying an insect or an animal and we found that it had a great affinity for a certain object, path, or behavior, we would seek to find out what the attraction was.Why are Christians so adamant about their faith?
For me, I have experienced too much to ever doubt the authenticity of the Spirit. Some have said that what I experienced was an emotional link to a bunch of lonely people seeking a calling in life.
I have acknowledged this possibility, yet I sense something deeper. I have always known this as God. This deep, inner knowing. The odd thing is, the more "proof" against Him that I am shown, the more that I need to experience Him.Atheists would say that I am afraid of living without the crutch of religion. I wish it were that simple. The crutch that is referred to is very much alive and personal. It is a relationship rather than a religion. I derive great strength from talking with Him every day.
Some would say that I am talking to myself. What do you think?