The power of prayer: in action

1999 Father dying from cancer. Mother needs help on many levels. I live too far away to be consistent physical help. Did as much as possible. During this time we were devout praying Christians. Had the churches praying for my parents etc. My husband also decided it was time to move closer so we could be more help. Had church and friends praying for that one too.Nov 2000 Father died. Now Mother is on her own.2003 Gave up on praying and church. No added value from either and needed the time to help my mother.2004 Husband is still looking for a job. I eat up a lot of miles and gas to help her manage her money, the house, and the farm. Now my husband's parents are getting to the stage of needing my help. They live in the same area as my mother.My life has been much happier without the prayer and the church.

---

A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

quote:

---

It is my experience that the concept of the healing power of prayer often exasperates the emotional turmoil surrounding serious illness, although religiosity can alleviate the grief.

---

I went into intense Bible study and finally understand the reality of the Bible and religion.The best description I can give is that I've matured beyond what religion can provide.Since I stopped praying and no longer trust in the ambiguities of religion, my fortune hasn't changed. Actually my husband and I are happier.

---

A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

quote:

---

May I ask, had he survived do you think you would now be still a believer ?

---

No.His illness caused me to delve deeper into Bible study. He and I had always discussed theology, more so in his last days. My father wasn't a supporter of dogma/tradition either.His death just magnified the reality of religion and made it easier for me to intensify my Bible studies and mature spiritually, for lack of a better word.Although I don't believe what Christianity presents in tradition and dogma; I do find words of wisdom within the Jewish/Christian Bible, as well as, wisdom from other cultures. Wisdom that comes from experiences inherent in existence.Now as to whether a supreme being or spirits exist, I don't know. Still on that journey.

---

A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

quote:

---

Most of us don't even know we aren't free and I can prove it.

---

Go for it!

---

A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

I'm glad that church works for you.The church served no purpose in our lives. No value added.There's no hate involved.

---

A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

quote:

---

Tell me, have you forgiven everyone that ever hurt you?

---

Yes

---

A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

My choice of signature was influenced by the way people were communicating on this forum.I was surprised at the harshness from professed Christians.So I chose that verse as a gentle reminder.My fuse is actually very long.

---

A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

quote:

---

some people can't accept the fact that God repeatedly fails people, through no fault of their own. There always has to be some other reason.

---

I agree. I've seen people suffer more trying to find out what they haven't done right.My mother still belongs to the church and still has bouts of wanting to know why Dad died. It usually comes after a sermon on healing.It takes a while for me to calm her down and help her realize that it has nothing to do with what she or Dad did or didn't do spiritually. Death is unavoidable.

---

A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

quote:

---

It was pointed out that this simply ascribes all outcomes to God without any evidence that there's a connection, and this seems to me to be the key point.

---

Taking the one point made by asciikerr in Message 19 that sometimes God takes a while to answer a prayer.So let's say in another 5 yrs my husband finally gets a job so we can relocate closer to our parents.Christians would say that this constitues an answer to my prayers from 1999.If my prayer had a deadline in it, does that mean that the prayer was not a factor in the final outcome?

---

A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

Deleted double post. Sorry!This message has been edited by purpledawn, 10-28-2004 02:07 PM

quote:

---

Your husband hasn't been able to find a job for several years?

---

He has always had a job, but we live over 2 hours away from our parents and my sister is out of state. My mother's relatives are out of state. Dad's relatives are all gone.He has been looking for new employment within commuting range of our parents so we can relocate to that area.He's an executive which makes it harder.

---

A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

I'm glad you decided to open up.Did you follow a process to be saved?Most churches I have belonged to put people through classes or counseling/talks with a preacher or layperson. You may have also started the process on your own.During this process is when people usually shed those "layers of crap" you mentioned in Message 36.As we shed those "layers of crap" (psychological baggage) our countenance does noticeably change, as well as, health.

quote:

---

Have you ever noticed yourself the difference when you look into a Christians eyes? I'm not talking about people who confess to be a Christian, and are really not.

---

These are the people who have gone through the motions of Christianity, but have not rid themselves of the baggage. They may or may not be able to.Enjoy the journey.

---

A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

quote:

---

The air was fresher, the trees were greener, the whole world looked like a different place, and I to the world too I guess judging by peoples reactions to my newfound look.

---

I understand exactly what you are talking about. Been there done that and it is wonderful.

quote:

---

You know what, and this is for you, even if it was fake, which I do not feel it is, it is such an awesome feeling, and so peaceful, so full of Love, so perfect, that I do not want to feel any other way.

---

It wasn't fake.Many people have ruined their spiritual journey because they are always trying to relive that initial feeling. They want that rush. Maintain the peace, the thrill will come and go. Just like a marriage.Take Care
The journey continues.

---

A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

quote:

---

Have you made any oaths in your life based on what people have done to you?

---

Since you said "done to you" I'm assuming you mean an oath of revenge of sorts. If that is what you are asking, then no I don't and haven't.Revenge serves no purpose and is a waste of energy. It causes you to lose your inner peace.If you are speaking of a positive oath, such as because I suffered this I will do such and such to prevent others from suffering the same. I don't and haven't done that either.I do make a mental note and watch for opportunities that might serve the purpose.My path in life tends to be flexible which allows me to help or learn from those in close proximity. Large scale actions are not my strength. I stick with my talents.Hopefully that answers your question.

---

A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

quote:

---

Haven't you made an oath against churches and religion?

---

No. Maybe I'm looking at an oath differently, but as I understand "oath" it is a promise of what I will do in the future, whether immediate or distant, concerning the specified object.I have stopped praying and as of now I don't put my trust in the rituals of religion. They serve no purpose in my life at this time. I have no idea how my future will play out or where my journey will take me.When family or friends invite us to religious functions, we usually go. I still discuss the Bible with family and friends within their comfort zone.

quote:

---

Do you still believe in God? Jesus?

---

I do not believe in a God or a Devil as presented by mankind/religion. Whether a supreme being exists/existed or not, I don't know.I do not believe that Jesus is/was a deity.

quote:

---

How do you communicate with God if you still do?

---

This may be a hard one to explain. Although I no longer do the prayers of thanks or request, I do meditate so to speak. It all depends on what I'm trying to work through or understand.I've never really put this in words before, so hopefully it makes sense.

---

A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.