The power of prayer: in action

They only look like random chance from an objective standpoint - yet prayer studies have also reported above random chance - which is what you don't tell us!So - a believer isn't so foolish to say - "God - despite this fascinating healing - some dudeguyette said you're random chance - and I don't want her to think me irrational".But Shraff - in real life - if you come across truth - such rationalisations become irrationalisations in the moment it is happening in.HAH!

There's nothing wrong with God - it's your understanding of him that says there is wrong. You are one who has to justify everything to yourself - therefore - if God isn't right in your book - then you don't believe. But this is the nature of self-righteousness. We have the righteousness of God in Christ. You won't understand what I mean by that, like I don't understand so more complicated evolutionists posts here at evc.Nevertheless - your logic isn't right anyway.If God foresees a rapist - then he foresees his demise. But God didn't create the rapist - the rapist did. You haven't even understood what we are saying here - thus you don't understand our God's will. If we pray "according to God's will" as Christ said - what is that will?Christ made it known that his will is that the Gospel be preached through all nations that people will be saved. God foreseen the saved - and his intention is the outcome thereof.If then, Christ casts out diseases - why would he do that - if Charles Knight says that God must have intended the disease? Didn't ALSO the hypocrits say that Christ was king of the demons - a demon casting out demons? -- well then, like them - you haven't understood God, and you certainly don't understand Christ.

I was waiting for the "please pray for those in Sudan " etc.. requests. First of all - we obviously would have prayed for this way back - we don't just pray when an atheist is challenging us you know. Sheesh.Anyhow - Christ said pray and ask anything in his name and if it be according to the Father's will - it shall be added unto thee.Things like "all the poor people dying etc".. Well, this can't be denied - that these people are dying - but what can be denied is that this effects the existence of God. Why? Christ said there would be wars - and rumours of them, and that we would always have the poor.If Christ said we would always have the poor - why would Riverrat's prayer about Sudan not coming to passs - effect the reality of God?...I need an answer!

Didn't you know Dpardo - doubters only count negatives when dealing with God - no positives are allowed.Wow - how objective of them......NOT

Exactly - we're both biased - naturally. Nothing can be gained in a thread of this nature. I count the positive - you count the negative --> together we make a wonderful pair of chumps going around in a circle. However - I'm not prepared to let the unbeliever say that prayer doesn't make a difference when I know it does. Why? Because I only count prayer as personal proof - so it's rude for someone to simply discount my prayers when I am being terribly reasonable.For example;- I acknowledge prayers are unfalsifiable because God can say "no"..
- I count my prayers as "personal proof" because they can mean nothing to a person who doesn't believe.Therefore - I'm only claiming that I believe my prayers are answered and I can only recommend belief concerning prayer, and admitt that I cannot prove they are answered - I simply believe they are.Nevertheless, post-hoc reasoning and confirmation bias are not sufficient enough to make me not believe - because I've always said that those things are irrelevant - and reasoning becomes irrational when faced with a true situation.For example - confirmation bias will seem pretty darn irrelevant to a guy who has been healed of cancer - and therefore - if YOU had been - let's be honest, you'd have to be mad to not believe.
THAT is why I am irrefutable mike - - HAHAHA - eat that Shraff!

Shraff, concerning your story;You are also guilty. I have listened to you - and even suggested prayers are unfalsifiable etc...But you have ignored Riverat's comments about the Holy Spirit - and dismissed what he said, just like your boss dismissed what you said. You have made him and others the equivalant of someone who kills their child etc..because of what they have experienced. These actions are the equivalent of me saying that all schizophrenics are murderers - so your ignorance of these events is equal to that of a creationist YEC who argues against the ToE with no knowledge of it.Are you saying Buzsaw and Hangdawg and Riverrat are murderers? So am I rational or a murderer?I suggest that you unbelievers cannot handle Riverrat's overwhelming joy - he's like a kid with a toy - and there's no convincing him that that toy isn't shiney and new and fun, and exciting - and happening.Listen - You have not observed logic or reason at all here;People who hear voices like schizophrenics, are seldom murderers - if anything, your ignorance of schizophrenia is prevailent. Most of them are harmless. So we can tick that nasty comment about Buz, Hangdawg and Riverrat off the list for a start.Mr Hambre; Well lets see - he's at the River - hence his name - the chances are that fish might be jumping - as that's where he is at - and his purpose is fishing. The chances of him seeing a big fish are good - it can not as a whole - prove much. However - you also believe this is an amzing coincidence - even none-believers acknowledge "amazing coincidences". Indeed, it takes no mathematical ability to acknowledge an amazing coincidence, and none-believers and believers alike - both acknowledge them. Infact - you'd probably just say "it was a coincidence". The only difference is that we "collect" them - and you are thereby sloppy with your maths.However - are you observing maths Mr Hambre? IS this all Riverrat has suggested for his belief in prayer? Have you acknowledged all of that other stuff he said - or have you dismissed it because of your bias against such things? I mean - we already know what you think about people with faith.So - it's altogether pretty shitty of you - to come on here trying to make him out to be some confused chump with no ability to do anything, as to thereby dismiss what he has said. Are you doing your math? He has a business which is succesful - how thick can he be? Even if this success in business is not an answered prayer - it still proves he is a bit of a wiz at his business, as it's got to be down to something he's doing right. Maybe you should divulge ALL the information.>This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 10-29-2004 10:45 AM

MrHambre. I apreciate what you are saying - I wouldn't say I exactly disagree with it, but have you understood what I meant? I said;" Well lets see - he's at the River - hence his name - the chances are that fish might be jumping - as that's where he is at - and his purpose is fishing. The chances of him seeing a big fish are good - it can not as a whole - prove much. "If I admitt this isn't proving much - and you just say "it's a coincidence that he asked for a big fish and got one" - I'm not going to argue with you. Why? I consider prayers personal proof - read my other message to Coragyps in this thread concerning the matter. Believe it or not - I agree, and those things annoy me. But the difference is that horoscopes are vague - I've seen how they are made - as to convince people they're true - for example; " You've suffered in the past but you will come in to good fortune " - and since that applies to about 80% of all people....well, you'll get what I mean. And so - these horoscopes are vague, - but prayers are specific. For example - if I need to be healed from cancer - healing me from a common cold won't be an answered prayer - I hope you can apreciate what I mean.So - I admitt that I "notice" coincidences - but I also take part - it's great feeling praying for something then seeing it happen - and you are the one in charge of the terms.Sorry if I was crankier a bit earlier - many people are attacking Riverrat and it upset me a little.

" Whoever fails to find me harms himself; all who hate me love to death " ProverbsI am guessing that before you knew God - you had drugs etc...and worldly desires - as you would love "death" beforehand - and that which kills the body. Smoking, drinking, drugs. All these addictive things can be healed by God, by those who seek him. But all who actively pursue these things - pursue quick fixes for their weak flesh. They have no control over their own selves. This weakness of the flesh is the disgusting corruption of the enemy - who has succesfully stunk out the planet. We are all the scum on God's earth.( edited out offensive part.)All these corruptions can be stopped - - they are contaminated by satan - chief of the contaminants.This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 10-30-2004 12:50 PM

Well, that is - the sinful wicked part of them - and me also.I guess I hate evil - and love God.

I've edited out the offensive part. Sorry about that.Anyway - what do you think of the yob culture in the UK?Do you think they would laugh at me if I preached to them on the street corner? Or would I get my head kicked in?.....I suggest you look at the moral decline BECAUSE of the lack of "following God."

Erm...Charles - I asked if I'd get my head kicked in. You didn't answer - because you KNOW I would either be beaten up or killed. SO do you think these yobs are christian? Please answer the question.