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Author Topic:   Oh my God, I'm an Atheist !!
ikabod
Member (Idle past 4569 days)
Posts: 365
From: UK
Joined: 03-13-2006


Message 166 of 183 (410786)
07-17-2007 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 165 by nator
07-17-2007 9:32 AM


and there you hit the problem , by following a religious code it is not being a bigot , where every view they spout is the correct view , because they have faith , its the classic problem you cant just belive in the bits you like you have to take the whole package .
if the holy book say all lefthanded people are evil then thats the way the world is , you get no choice , you make a commitment to the code ..... this is the danger of faith in its may forms .. it breeds absolute certainty .. one of the most dangerous things in this world .. as if free us from questioning ...and then we are back with the them and us .. the rabid atheists destroying all the religion-ists to save us from the wrong way of thinking ...opss no shouldnt that be the otherway round ...
mean while back to the OP .. i wonder do xians think of god in the last moments of life .. or do they assume that they have done all that they can .. and think .now where did i leave that will ??

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3988 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 167 of 183 (410800)
07-17-2007 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 151 by riVeRraT
07-17-2007 12:34 AM


Re: Some Observations
All I am talking about RR is how you (and NJ) seem to be percieved by other members of this forum.
I seem to recall even saying in the past that I think sometimes you get a bad rap. Occassionally the problem in communication seems to be about history between posters and not comitting to true understanding of what people are saying. You have certainly been the victim of that on occassion.
I think what you and NJ might be missing is that over and over again people are telling you exactly the kind of message they get from your participation. How many people does it take saying the same thing before you stop claiming that it is THEY who are not understanding your message? 2? 10? 100?
Maybe it is a problem of communication. In YOUR case I think that might be more likely. I don't think that is true for NJ. I honestly believe that deep down the things that NJ believes and chooses to express are damaging the reputation of the God he chooses to profess. Maybe even moreso than your run-of-the-mill creationists because many people simply write them off as deluded. NJ is lucid yet evasion and contradictions are apparent and often the norm.
Why? Also, what purpose does this server?
How mucher closer to understanding God is bery and dan after their interactions with NJ?
Too many people have "oaths" (stuck in their ways)on this board (and in life) and that is the basis for prejudice, and not being free. When true forgiveness takes place, then you are no longer bound by these oaths you have made about life. the bars can be lifted one by one, as God reveals tham to us.
So you say this and yet you proclaim in the OP that these same people will be open to God in those last moments on the brink amongst the fear of death? Impressions are built over a lifetime. This includes impressions of God.
You claim that everyone "knows" God's love. I am making the claim that whatever "know" may or may not be there is often destroyed by the time someone gets to the point of taking their last breath.
I guess, my last question is, did you actually hope to help people discover this lost knowledge or are you trying to make God seem silly and push people away? What effect do YOU think you have had thus far?
Edited by Jazzns, : No reason given.

Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by riVeRraT, posted 07-17-2007 12:34 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by riVeRraT, posted 07-17-2007 1:33 PM Jazzns has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 488 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 168 of 183 (410804)
07-17-2007 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 153 by riVeRraT
07-17-2007 6:03 AM


riVeRraT writes:
Do what myself? I've done everything I am supposed to do.
It's up to you to make yourself understood. God isn't going to swoop down and do that for you. If you don't want to sound like a bigot, if you don't want to hurt people by sounding like a bigot, it's up to you to figure out what it is you are saying that makes you sound like a bigot.
So tell me, now that I am for gay marriage (in the state) yet I still do not understand how a person can be attracted to another person of the same sex, wtf am I doing wrong?
  1. Saying you're for gay marriage "in the state" is like saying you're not prejudiced against black people but you wouldn't want your sister to marry one. It's the exceptions to the rule that are bigotry.
  2. You do understand the attraction to women, don't you? So why wouldn't women be attracted to women in the same way you are? It's the attraction (of anybody) to men that doesn't "make sense" isn't it?
You want me to lie, and say the bible condones homosexuality?
The Bible also condemns seafood in the same breath. Stop using the Bible as an excuse.
Yea, all that could change on my death bed, if God shows up, and tells me I was completely wrong, and explains to me why.
Instead of waiting till you die to learn The Truth™, why not try to learn something now, when it might do some good?

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by riVeRraT, posted 07-17-2007 6:03 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5967
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 169 of 183 (410806)
07-17-2007 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 166 by ikabod
07-17-2007 10:07 AM


mean while back to the OP .. i wonder do xians think of god in the last moments of life .. or do they assume that they have done all that they can .. and think .now where did i leave that will ??
Well, judging from "atheists in foxholes", they do. And it terrifies them.
A Viet Nam vet told of being in the base club when mortars began raining down on them. He and another atheist just settled in under a table with a bottle to wait it out -- if they died they died and there wasn't anything they could do about it. Another group of soldiers whom he knew to be fundamentalist Christians were all hysterical with fear of dying. He reported to have seen the same scenario play out repeatedly during every attack, with the believers terrified of death and the non-believers able to face death.
Our first minister (Unitarian Universalist) once related a healing he performed in a hospital -- in case you don't know about UU's, the very thought of faith-healing is antithetical to us. A terminal patient who was a devout Christian was lying there terrified. Not knowing our minister's denomination, he confessed that he was afraid that he might not measure up to God's terrible Judgement, that he might have done something wrong. So our minister read from his favorite passage:
quote:
He hath showed thee, O man, what [is] good; and what doth
the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy,
and to walk humbly with thy God?
  —"Micah 6:8"
And the patient was visibly relieved with these words and slept that night peacefully.
Fundamentalist proselytizers will frequently resort to what I have called the "Christian Death Threat", which is the threat of facing God's Judgement without having been saved. This is the playing on people's fear of death that has already been touched upon in this thread.
And yet, ironically, it seems to be precisely belief in God's Judgement and in what is supposed to happen if you do not pass muster -- excuse me, Muster -- that makes believers so much more terrified of death than non-believers.
PS
Back to "atheists in foxholes". I had read and heard several testimonials of how people had become atheists. A number of them lost their faith in combat when face-to-face with their own imminent death. I believe that applies to the OP's question.
Edited by dwise1, : No reason given.
Edited by dwise1, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by ikabod, posted 07-17-2007 10:07 AM ikabod has not replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 492 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 170 of 183 (410817)
07-17-2007 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 160 by nator
07-17-2007 9:04 AM


Re: Some Observations
The first quote is only my belief, and a possibility. As I stated just a few posts ago, it is not an absolute.
The second quote is fine, because I do accept Percy's answer. That is what she believes. It was what I believed too. Some bone head making a few posts in an internet forum would not have changed my mind either.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by nator, posted 07-17-2007 9:04 AM nator has not replied

bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2553 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 171 of 183 (410820)
07-17-2007 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 154 by ikabod
07-17-2007 7:46 AM


ikabod writes:
both [xians and atheists] take the stand point that they hold the irrevocable truth on the nature of the universe
This risks wandering off topic, so I'll be brief, although I could argue that as RiverRat shows some misunderstanding of atheists in the O.P., and you're showing a different kind of misunderstanding here, it's relevant.
Atheists do not take the "stand point that they hold the irrevocable truth on the nature of the universe". This atheist doesn't even know what the universe really is. It may have more than four dimensions, for example, and appears to be a very mysterious place, even to the minds of our most talented physicists. We just don't have faith in any of the Gods of any of the religions. Xians don't have faith in any of the Gods of any of the religions except one. They do claim to know at least one kind of basic truth about the universe, which is that their particular God created it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by ikabod, posted 07-17-2007 7:46 AM ikabod has not replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 492 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 172 of 183 (410826)
07-17-2007 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by Percy
07-17-2007 9:21 AM


Re: Some Observations
Hey, look, Riv, I just don't have the skill to unravel these contradictions.
Then I am the WINNER!!!
riVeRraT in Message 51 writes:
And plenty of gay people have done me harm...
Is consistent with this:
riVeRraT in Message 157 writes:
I have never held a grudge against anyone, JUST BECAUSE THEY WERE GAY, or anything for that matter.
It is not inconsistent, the second quote is a further explanation of what was said, since you automatically assume, that I hate gay people, just because they are gay.
If I was less of a person, I would have. As you can see I despise that kind of behavior. I never hated gay people just because they were gay. Christian or not.
Look I am not perfect, we all do harm to people sometimes, and we don't even realize we are doing it. That is something that I suffered from, and still do. The Holy Spirit has pointed out much to me, and made me more aware of how my actions affect others.
Sometimes it can be just taking the time out to better explain yourself.
I know you also said there were "details", but that doesn't justify stigmatizing an entire group that has not done you any harm Later denials made under duress just don't ring as true as freely made unsolicited statements.
That is why I have not stigmatized anyone.
Look, for me same sex marriage is just not marriage. That is because I believe a man should be with a woman, period. It has nothing to do with me hating gays. To me, you can't make black, white.
But my priorities in life, tell me to ignore that thought. For if I impose those beliefs into our legal system, I would be a hypocrite. I treasure freedom above all else. I am attacking my very own freedom when I start telling people what they can, and cannot do, I am expect the same to happen to me.
Where I live, there is no legal place to ride ATV's. All the liberals around here, have had it all banned. I pay taxes on the state land just like they do, why are they telling me, what I can, and cannot do. That is equivalent to me telling gays what they can, and cannot do.
If I was unfair, and bigoted, I would not have realized this simple fact. It wouldn't matter to me, and I would probably be a bigot.
I see many people in here, angry at the church (whatever church) because they were hurt by it in the past, and now take it out on all of the world religions. They don't see this as being prejudice. Like they have some righteous anger or something. It is like ikabod said, it doesn't matter what side you are on, we all seem to act the same.
Hopefully I am not acting that way, and I truly accept other peoples beliefs.
People taint what I say, and put me into a category. I don't want to be in a category, from either side. I just want to be man. Like prince.
The fact that people taint what I say, just because I believe in Christ, shows the battle that goes on. It only enforces my beliefs, not diminish them. But I won't let it affect who I am, and how I am with others. Eye for an eye does not rule my life.
Somewhere in the Bible it says something like, "Judge not, that ye be not judged." It's good advice.
Yes that is why I was correcting what I wrote, as Parasonium was commenting on it. I reread what I wrote, and realized I wrote, what I did not mean. I think when I say we are all sinners, that I am being fair.
If someone here is not a sinner, please stand up.
t's good advice. If you stop judging atheists to be deniers of God who they unconsciously know in their heart exists,
It is a possibility, not an absolute, have you got that yet?
and judging gays to have done you harm,
There is no judging, facts are facts. It doesn't matter that they were gay, as I pointed out 100 times already.
and just stop judging period, you may find fewer judgments flowing back toward you.
I have judged no-one, only shared what I went through. I do not judge people, unless I hold the same judgment up to myself. Fair is fair.
I have been wrongly accused, and mis-understood, and the victim of bigotry, and hatred against fundies, and Christians. So very ironic.
The reality is that all large groups are incredibly diverse. I'll bet you've been harmed by birdwatchers. The nature of bigotry is to accept stereotypes, which begin by generalizing from solitary acts to larger groups. I was robbed by a black man, therefore blacks are bad. I was cut off in traffic by an Asian, therefore Asians are bad drivers. My heart was broken by a women, therefore women are devil-spawn. Feeling this way is just part of our evolutionary makeup, our evolutionary psychology, and recognizing this can be very helpful toward resisting these inner impulses to which we're all heir.
OMG, why are you explaining this to me. It is plainly clear from the very first post about it, that I do not hold grudges, or hate people for WHAT they are. How many times do I have to explain it, and in how many ways? It's like kindergarten.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by Percy, posted 07-17-2007 9:21 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 177 by Percy, posted 07-17-2007 1:58 PM riVeRraT has replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 492 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 173 of 183 (410829)
07-17-2007 1:12 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by nator
07-17-2007 9:24 AM


Re: Created with Fear
Society.
As in, we are social animals, and thus have developed rules for behavior in order to create a more cohesive group.
Sorry nator, but that seems like a non-answer to me. What people think is right from wrong seems to be so diverse, that you could never come out with the coin phrase, "do the right thing."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by nator, posted 07-17-2007 9:24 AM nator has not replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 492 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 174 of 183 (410832)
07-17-2007 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by nator
07-17-2007 9:32 AM


Not all Christians are bigots, but most of the ones who post here have certainly displayed bigotry, including you.
Sorry nator, but I am not a bigot, or have I said anything bigotry.
Not understanding homosexual attraction, has nothing to do with the person doing it.
It is people like you that automatically equate the two, and show your prejudice.
I do not hate gay people just because they are gay, if I say it one more time....I'll....I'll....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by nator, posted 07-17-2007 9:32 AM nator has not replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 492 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 175 of 183 (410833)
07-17-2007 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by Jazzns
07-17-2007 11:37 AM


Re: Some Observations
I think what you and NJ might be missing is that over and over again people are telling you exactly the kind of message they get from your participation. How many people does it take saying the same thing before you stop claiming that it is THEY who are not understanding your message? 2? 10? 100?
As long as there is a good percentage of people who do understand what I am saying, and address me accordingly, then I will say it is them.
Why? Also, what purpose does this server?
How mucher closer to understanding God is bery and dan after their interactions with NJ?
I do not read everything that NJ writes. But if what NJ writes is not truth, and beberry, and Dan have the gift from God of discernment. Then they are that much closer to finding God, the real God.
So you say this and yet you proclaim in the OP that these same people will be open to God in those last moments on the brink amongst the fear of death? Impressions are built over a lifetime. This includes impressions of God.
And delusions, which will all vanish when all of that does not matter anymore.
I guess, my last question is, did you actually hope to help people discover this lost knowledge or are you trying to make God seem silly and push people away? What effect do YOU think you have had thus far?
A push away, might actually be a push closer. Most of what I say, and what Jesus said, does not have an immediate affect. It is only over time, and gathering enough of the evidence, that things can start to make sense. Plus, it is entirely up to God, to bring people to Him. we do not get there by our own efforts. If God did not make that final push in me, I would have never reached the level of faith that I now have (which is still just a very small drop, in a very large bucket).
Go to biblegateway.com, and search the word truth in the bible. If what I say is truth, it will find a way to a persons heart, albeit not immediately. If it is not, then I am the one with something to learn.
The biggest problem here is that it is always person vs person, or belief vs belief. I don't see things that way, and I see it all as us, the human race, just trying to get along. Can't we all just get along?
If you can't get along, then you (not you) are the one with the problem, not me. Because I desire to get along with everyone.
I get along with many people who do things that I do not like. I have decided in my life (at a very young age) to put those things to the side, in favor of getting along. It is like a prime directive for me or something.
Still, I made oaths, and that stood in the way of getting along with people. I blame the Holy Spirit for making these things known to me, and allowing me to get past these oaths.
Personal oaths, are the root of bigotry, prejudice, and hatred.
Like ikabod said, religion is a whole package, and that is where the problem starts, but ikabod, the bible says love your enemy. So now what?
Oh, and it is not about what affect I have on people, but what affect we have on each other.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by Jazzns, posted 07-17-2007 11:37 AM Jazzns has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 178 by Jazzns, posted 07-17-2007 2:24 PM riVeRraT has replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 492 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 176 of 183 (410836)
07-17-2007 1:40 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by ringo
07-17-2007 11:41 AM


Instead of waiting till you die to learn The Truth™, why not try to learn something now, when it might do some good?
I am always trying. It's clear you don't understand me either. I am not continuing with this vain, it has been discussed enough already.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by ringo, posted 07-17-2007 11:41 AM ringo has not replied

Percy
Member
Posts: 22604
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 177 of 183 (410844)
07-17-2007 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by riVeRraT
07-17-2007 1:09 PM


Re: Some Observations
riVeRraT writes:
The fact that people taint what I say, just because I believe in Christ...
Yeah, right, and we're jealous of you, too.
It has nothing to do with your belief in Christ. You've got to stop giving yourself excuses. I'm surrounded by Christians in everyday life, and not for an instant does it occur to me to think they're bigoted. When someone does make a bigoted statement, as occasionally happens, I conclude, "This person's a bigot," not "This person is a Christian, more evidence that Christian's are bigots."
It isn't Christians or Christianity or belief in Christ that is the target of our criticism, it's you, and it's also Christians like you, because expressions of intolerance like this about gays and women and sex and abortion and health and so forth are very common among conservative Christians. Now maybe it's not true that you share any conservative Christian views on these matters, but except when you make explicit denials, you talk just like they do, and you say a lot of the same kinds of things that they say. And if it sounds like duck...
Maybe it's not that you're not bigoted, it's just that you've just got a case of terminal foot-in-mouth disease, because even while denying bigotry you're defending bigoted statements like this one:
riVeRraT in Message 51 writes:
And plenty of gay people have done me harm...
As part of the defense you say:
That is why I have not stigmatized anyone.
How is the statement, "Plenty of gay people have done me harm," not stigmatizing them? You see what I mean about foot-in-mouth disease? How do you expect people to put faith in your denials of bigotry when you can't even acknowledge the statement is inherently bigoted, and so you refuse to disavow it? If that statement means what it looks like it means, then there's no way to justify it. There's no way to explain it. There's no way to put it in context. If you believe gays as a group are more dangerous to you than non-gays as a group, then you're a bigot.
So if you don't want to be perceived in this way then you have to make a concerted effort to disavow statements like that, and you have to stop making such statements. Otherwise we could only conclude that as much as you try to hide it, that's what you really believe because except when exercising conscious control, bigoted statements just keep pouring out of you.
If someone here is not a sinner, please stand up.
Are you directing this to non-Christians, atheists and agnostics? Makes as much sense as asking us what we plan to say to Saint Paul when we reach the pearly gates. Classifying all people as sinners is just Christian theology and has no meaning once you step outside Christian circles.
I have judged no-one...
Let me quote you again:
riVeRraT in Message 51 writes:
And plenty of gay people have done me harm...
This isn't going to go away until you realize within your own mind that gays are not a threat to you. Only when that happens will your unconsciously expressed bigoted views cease, at which time the perceptions of you as a bigot will also cease.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by riVeRraT, posted 07-17-2007 1:09 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 179 by riVeRraT, posted 07-17-2007 2:52 PM Percy has replied

Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3988 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 178 of 183 (410853)
07-17-2007 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by riVeRraT
07-17-2007 1:33 PM


Re: Some Observations
As long as there is a good percentage of people who do understand what I am saying, and address me accordingly, then I will say it is them.
That is a fair response. Are there a lot of people who come to you telling you that they understand what you are saying and those "other guys" are just being hard headed?
I do not read everything that NJ writes. But if what NJ writes is not truth, and beberry, and Dan have the gift from God of discernment. Then they are that much closer to finding God, the real God.
What if they aren't blessed with the power of "discernment"? Where does that leave NJ's efforts?
Oh, and it is not about what affect I have on people, but what affect we have on each other.
There is a contradiction in that statement. "You" happen to be a part of "we". I never said that other people are not also culpable. But it just seems to me that others take more care when they feel that they are not being understood or what effect their opinions might have.
Of course, that is just from my perspective which might be tainted by what I agree with. I am willing to entertain that. It just seems like your trying to build a bridge over a chasm and rather than finishing it, you throw up your hands and say, "the rest is up to God". Meanwhile, you cannot get mad at the people on the other side who refuse to cross until the large unfilled holes are dealt with.

Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by riVeRraT, posted 07-17-2007 1:33 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 180 by riVeRraT, posted 07-17-2007 3:08 PM Jazzns has not replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 492 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 179 of 183 (410860)
07-17-2007 2:52 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by Percy
07-17-2007 1:58 PM


Re: Some Observations
How is the statement, "Plenty of gay people have done me harm," not stigmatizing them?
Ok, I'm done.
You answer this question, why did I say that? why did I mention what happened to me. Go back and read.
All that is, is you talking things out of context, so that you can blame me for being a bigot, which I am not.
Are you directing this to non-Christians, atheists and agnostics?
No, and why would you feel that way, after everything I have explained to you.
This isn't going to go away until you realize within your own mind that gays are not a threat to you. Only when that happens will your unconsciously expressed bigoted views cease, at which time the perceptions of you as a bigot will also cease.
This is not a bigoted view, for the last time. I have explained it how many times? Do I need to loose valuable minutes off my life to go back and quote everything?
I've explained several times that I do not dislike gay people because they are gay. I do not dislike gay people at all. Those people who just happened to be gay, did not hurt me, because they were gay.
Do you get that now? I've said it more than 3 times in this thread alone.
You've totally missed the point several times. The point of bringing that up, was to show, that I do not hold grudges, or associated peoples behaviors, with who or what they are.
In other words, I am not a bigot. Are you so sensitive to that statement, that it interferes with what I am saying?
I've run into many people like that, who let their own ideas, and prejudices block out what people are trying so desperately to tell them.
Right now, I see you as prejudice, and bigoted, type of person.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by Percy, posted 07-17-2007 1:58 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 181 by ringo, posted 07-17-2007 3:34 PM riVeRraT has not replied
 Message 182 by Percy, posted 07-17-2007 4:31 PM riVeRraT has not replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 492 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 180 of 183 (410867)
07-17-2007 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 178 by Jazzns
07-17-2007 2:24 PM


Re: Some Observations
That is a fair response. Are there a lot of people who come to you telling you that they understand what you are saying and those "other guys" are just being hard headed?
Yes, didn't I just say that?
It won't happen much here, as someone pointed already, that I am a minority here. So percentage wise, it is even.
What if they aren't blessed with the power of "discernment"? Where does that leave NJ's efforts?
I can't answer that, because I think they are blessed with it.
There is a contradiction in that statement. "You" happen to be a part of "we". I never said that other people are not also culpable. But it just seems to me that others take more care when they feel that they are not being understood or what effect their opinions might have.
Again, being the minority here, I am usually ganged up on. Someone once told me, it takes 7 truths to cover up one lie. I kind of believe that, and as you can see with Percy, I have had to explain the same thing over, and over again. She thinks I hate gays, just because a few gay people did me harm when I was younger.
Where does that leave little ol me? My life is not this forum. Sometimes, people are either going to have to get it, or not. Maybe one day they will. Maybe one day, I will.
Of course, that is just from my perspective which might be tainted by what I agree with. I am willing to entertain that. It just seems like your trying to build a bridge over a chasm and rather than finishing it, you throw up your hands and say, "the rest is up to God". Meanwhile, you cannot get mad at the people on the other side who refuse to cross until the large unfilled holes are dealt with.
Like I said, I am one person. Maybe with a slight attitude change of the majority here in this forum, more could be accomplished. People should go back and read this thread, and pretend I was an atheist. Sometimes I think about disappearing, and coming back here as an atheist, just to see if somehow, people will start magically understanding me. There are many here who disagree with me, and it only takes one explanation to clear things up. They get it, why don't others?
If one person disagrees with me, why is it then necessary for 3 more to post the same thing?
Other than, I will have to leave it up to God. That is one department where my faith is very strong, and I have seen God move mightily in that way.
You really think that most people who walk away from this forum, after a topic has been closed, and then God reveals something to them, are going to come back and tell me?
I am sorry, I really feel I have said nothing wrong in this entire thread, and I have expressed myself very clearly. You seem to understand me pretty well. I don't see you asking me the same things over and over, and trying to point out the same thing over and over. About the only thing I could have said differently, as I mentioned, was that the OP was one scenerio, not an absolute thing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 178 by Jazzns, posted 07-17-2007 2:24 PM Jazzns has not replied

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