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Author Topic:   Treatment of the Bible as a historical text
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 42 of 56 (121657)
07-03-2004 7:12 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Sleeping Dragon
06-30-2004 3:42 AM


Now my point:
If we accept the Christian Bible as a valid historical record written/inspired by God, I would like to know if the portrayal of Satan/Lucifer is biased in much the same way as the Allies viewed the Axis and vice versa.
While many at the time considered Nazi Germany and Imperialist Japan as physical manifestations of evil, it should be remembered that they viewed the Allied powers in much the same light. The difference (in my opinion) lies only in the fact that the Allies won the war.
By your analogy, the Bible is indeed a valid historical record. God made an everlasting covenant/promise/prophecy to Abraham found in Genesis 12:3 In this text he promised Abraham and his decendents of the promise that all who bless him and his descendents, God will bless and all who curse them will God curse. On the belts of all Nazi soldiers was the words. "Gott liebe un", meaning "God loves us." The problem was that Hitler and his Nazi regime cursed the promised descendents of Abraham, the Jews, so God cursed them. Some will say, how about the Arabs, also descendents of Abraham? The answer is simple. The Abrahamic Covenant, as this promise is known was confirmed, not to the descendents of Ishmael, but to the descendents of Sarah and was confirmed by God to Isaac and later to his son, Jacob. Thus Israel wins all their wars against great odds with those who curse them, the Muslim descendents of Ismael, worshippers of the god Allah and who reject the God Jehovah, often forbiding the preaching of his book, the Bible and the prophet/messiah, prophesied in that book which turns out to be Jesus. This is just one of the scores of examples of the valid historicity of the Bible.
Btw, I don't necessarily buy that the King of Tyre is a direct reference to Satan. I doubt it and since it doesn't say so, I don't think we can make that assumption.
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Sleeping Dragon, posted 06-30-2004 3:42 AM Sleeping Dragon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by Melchior, posted 07-03-2004 9:41 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 47 by arachnophilia, posted 07-04-2004 3:09 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 56 by Sleeping Dragon, posted 07-06-2004 9:18 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 44 of 56 (121677)
07-03-2004 10:35 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Melchior
07-03-2004 9:41 PM


Why would you say that the Nazi's were cursed and the Jews blessed? If you look at how many people died, more Jewish civilians were murdered than German soldiers and civilians combined. Certainly that doesn't seem like a very effective curse, does it?
1. God didn't curse the Jewish civilians. The Germans did and because of it were cursed of God and totally devastated.
2. God warned the Jews that because of their idolatry and disregard to his laws, etc, they would be scattered and persecuted by foreign nations a long time ago. These nations, however would not go unpunished, though they were fulfilling prophecy. Jesus and the OT prophets prophesied this, but promised that in the end times he would restore them from the nations and restore their land and nation. Actually the holocaust in Europe worked to drive them back to their land so as to becoming a big factor in fulfillment of the prophecy. God promised via both OT and NT prophets, a ruling messiah to eventually come and rule the world from Jerusalem. This is the essence of Zionism. So in that sense I am a Christian Zionist in that I believe Jesus the christ will return to fulfill his promise in his Olivet discourse and elsewhere.
I'm definitely not trying to imply that the Nazis had God on *their* side or anything, but just because they lost the war to a numerically overwhelming force doesn't mean they did poorly. I'd be more careful about saying that God favours a certain side over another, because you'll see that the numbers doesn't always agree with you.
The war was not lop sided. The West was totally caught off guard when Japan entered. The war was nip and tuck with some doubt as to who would emerge victorious. Germany was developing some sophisticated weapons and along with Italy and occupied nations had the head start before the West got organized. Regardless of the numbers, the enemies of the Jew were devastated with severe punishment in the end. So it went with the Arab wars, all of which the Jews were highly outnumbered (about 20 to 1) and in the early wars highly both outnumbered and out weaponed, Russia siding with the Arab nations.
According to the prophecies concerning Armageddon which will be in the Valley of Jehosaphat, i.e. the Kedron valley outside Jerusalem, a 200,000,000 million army moving in from the East will be involved, likely, imo, contending with the Russo-Arab alliance for the big prize, world domination. Russia and northern Europe will be the primary invaders again allying with the Arab nations. Read about it in Ezekiel 38, 39. There will be so many dead invaders that Israel will take 7 months to bury them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Melchior, posted 07-03-2004 9:41 PM Melchior has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by Melchior, posted 07-03-2004 11:37 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
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