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Author Topic:   Deposition and Erosion of Sediments
Arkansas Banana Boy
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 127 (192009)
03-16-2005 8:31 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Faith
03-16-2005 5:06 PM


When in Rome...
To think logically about geology you have to know the language, some terms and concepts.

The concepts of net sedimentation and protection of sediment by subsidence seem key to your understanding.

This site http://www.pitt.edu/AFShome/c/e/cejones/public/html/Geology0040/8_RiverSystems.pdf discusses sedimentation via streams and rivers. I will find some info on alluvial fans and deep sea sedimentation next as they have been mentioned here as net depositional events.

p.s. The pdf file on that site takes a few seconds to load.

ABB


This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Faith, posted 03-16-2005 5:06 PM Faith has not replied

  
Arkansas Banana Boy
Inactive Member


Message 26 of 127 (192079)
03-17-2005 6:09 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Faith
03-17-2005 4:08 AM


Your argument from incredulity is that millions of years is way too long. Many here find it hard to believe that the world is 10000yrs old or less, but refuse to use it as the basis of an argument.

The bottoms of some oceans and the deltic basins appear to have existed for a long time. These areas accumulate much more sediment than they lose and are not sitting still. If the ocean recedes then deposition stops and a portion may even erode away, but over the long haul any area that is covered by a sea for most of the time accumulates sediments.

Tectonic movement, over millions of years, may change an area that was for millions of years an ocean into, for instance, a brackish swamp. If this swamp persisted for a fairly long period then it would be later represented as a different layer on top of the previous marine sediment.

The alteration and fossil composition of these layers posed a problem for geologists of the 18th and 19th centuries, who noticed comonalities of strata in different areas when strata maps were compared. These common rock layers compise the geologic column. This concept was accepted by most scientists almost 200 years ago. Most of these scientists were originally creationist or were still subsequently religious. The 20th century brought radiometeric dating which furthur correlated these layers.

Yes, most geologists extrapolate from present day processes...this is uniformitatarian view as opposed to your catastrophist view that things must have been quite different on earth just a few thousand years ago.

And if 50 mil yrs for the Redwall bothers you then the 600+ mil yrs for the whole formation and 4.6 bil yrs for the age of earth must make you very incredulous.

So your objections are the deposition problem and extreme age.

Deposition occurs in some areas at such a rate as to exceed erosion, such as sea beds and deltic fans. That some areas have more deposition than erosion (and therefore sedimentation) has been shown to you in many forms.

It has also been shown that young earth creationists have more inconsistencies to deal with than old earthers, with fossil stratigraphy, radiometric dating, and lack of sufficient time for rock lithification or metamorphasis as just the beginning.

What particular scientific objections do you have to an old earth may be the next question to furthur plumb the depths of your geologic doubts.

ABB


This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Faith, posted 03-17-2005 4:08 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Jazzns, posted 03-17-2005 1:11 PM Arkansas Banana Boy has replied

  
Arkansas Banana Boy
Inactive Member


Message 27 of 127 (192103)
03-17-2005 9:39 AM


re; last message
I retract my request about the age question unless Faith wishes to pursue it; these threads can get off track soon. I'll just listen to others about the Grand Canyon as I'm still learning about it.

Till then its our old friends erosion,deposition,and sedimentation. Do they occur? Are they important in the rock cycle of an old earth or the unimportant remnants of a young degenerative world? Tune in next time for the thrilling conclusion!

Also here http://geology.about.com/library/bl/images/blalluvfan.htm is some info on alluvial fans. I'll work on finding some seafloor info next.


  
Arkansas Banana Boy
Inactive Member


Message 41 of 127 (192207)
03-17-2005 9:32 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Faith
03-17-2005 5:50 PM


You have mentioned being logical about this subject.

I know you think I need a sophisticated education in geology to think clearly about it but so far it doesn't seem that way to me,

It seems illogical to claim to be able to comment on a subject without learning about it.Actually you need just an unsophisticated education in geology. Some of the respondents here I suspect are like me, with just a freshman course in geology.

I think that your blind adherence to a young earth makes you see erosion and deposition as sideshows...processes that lead nowhere because everything happened a few thousand years ago.

I agree that a GD format is best. Your need to answer all respondents while avoiding a basic education in geology would indicate that having one patient and knowledgable person to spoonfeed you the pertinent details is the best approach.

I'll agree with Crashfrog and sit this out.

"You can bring a horse to water, but you can't make him drink"

ABB


This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Faith, posted 03-17-2005 5:50 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by Faith, posted 03-17-2005 11:14 PM Arkansas Banana Boy has not replied

  
Arkansas Banana Boy
Inactive Member


Message 42 of 127 (192214)
03-17-2005 10:18 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Jazzns
03-17-2005 1:11 PM


Thanx Jazzns
Thank you for that point by point rebuttal. It was a work well above my ability and patience. The tie in with the lack of a worldwide limestone layer to YEC theory weakness was good. The formation of limestone over thousands of square miles of old ocean beds may start to meet Faith's requirement of 'flat neat layers'.

Okay, time for me to be quiet. Good luck Moose.

ABB


This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Jazzns, posted 03-17-2005 1:11 PM Jazzns has not replied

  
Arkansas Banana Boy
Inactive Member


Message 74 of 127 (193204)
03-22-2005 1:00 AM
Reply to: Message 71 by Faith
03-21-2005 11:30 PM


Agreement in letter, not spirit
We agree, but for different reasons.

Good scientists will change their views to accomodated new information and most would not claim to be a final authority.

The appeal of Biblical literalism to some is the certainty that it provides. You don't interpret much and make arguments saying that those who do are imagining or speculating, and thus the your guess is as good as mine tactic.

As to your third point, thing is that a number of people are aware of and have read the positions of a number of prominent creationists. You have mentioned a few but perhaps you can list a few favorites in review. This will make the debunking of the fine reasoning of YEC procede more smoothly.

ABB


This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Faith, posted 03-21-2005 11:30 PM Faith has not replied

  
Arkansas Banana Boy
Inactive Member


Message 83 of 127 (194618)
03-26-2005 5:16 AM
Reply to: Message 81 by Jazzns
03-25-2005 12:31 PM


and now...
Content deleted. Only Faith, Jazzns and moderators are permitted to post to this thread. --Admin

This message has been edited by Admin, 03-27-2005 07:16 AM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Jazzns, posted 03-25-2005 12:31 PM Jazzns has not replied

  
Arkansas Banana Boy
Inactive Member


Message 114 of 127 (201852)
04-24-2005 4:30 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by Faith
04-13-2005 1:01 PM


Re: Question as to intent to continue.
Bumpsky

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Faith, posted 04-13-2005 1:01 PM Faith has not replied

  
Arkansas Banana Boy
Inactive Member


Message 116 of 127 (229041)
08-03-2005 3:26 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by Faith
04-13-2005 1:01 PM


bump
bump

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Faith, posted 04-13-2005 1:01 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by AdminJar, posted 08-03-2005 9:23 AM Arkansas Banana Boy has not replied

  
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