Prayer, faith and healing

Because the parents were ill-informed by thinking the boy was possessed and killed the boy it's God's fault? Man I think you've been spending a little too much time at exchristian.net

Hey can someone back me up that that is a strawman? Or do I have it wrong?

"We were asking God to take this spirit that was tormenting this little boy to death," said Bishop David Hemphill Sr."Quote from the articleGod didnt reach down and kill the boy but, I believe god did have some impact on their decisions. Unless the "God" in this case is the the boys father.

Not only were his parents ill-informed but the Bishop was also. How can a "respected" man of faith even be a part of an event like this. I wouldnt bring it up but since this is a topic on healing, this story was appropriate.

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How can a "respected" man of faith even be a part of an event like this.

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How would I know? What you think I think Bishops are infallible or are more then men? All men commit sin.

Its really easy to say "all men sin". What was the little boys sin? Having peoples faith in something cloud their judgements?This "sin" had god written all over it.[This message has been edited by Maneuver, 09-29-2003]

It's a strawman if Maneuver is arguing against a position you haven't taken.On the other hand, if you take the position that God heals his faithful, then it's not a strawman to point out a counterexample - the exact opposite of healing occuring to those who claim to have faith in him.

messenjaH message 10 of 36:"Have you thought that maybe- just for a second realize God has healed them spiritually? When I pray for God to help heal or help this person, I know my prayer will be answered in some way or another."I think my example is a counter example of this statement, unless you classify "help" as killing. The boys family and bishop also thought the same as you.Quote from article:"We were praying that hard"

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I think my example is a counter example of this statement, unless you classify "help" as killing. The boys family and bishop also thought the same as you.

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Quote from article:

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"We were praying that hard"

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That of course would be true if I started physically choking my grandfather.

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Its really easy to say "all men sin". What was the little boys sin? Having peoples faith in something cloud their judgements?
This "sin" had god written all over it."

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Now you are blaming God for clouding peoples judgement? Where in the bible does it say "choke" any person who is "sick" or better yet by your standards, someone that is "possessed". It just doesn't add up.It's also really easy to say It's Gods fault.

Luke 9:41-42: "...Bring thy son hither. And as he was yet a coming, the devil threw him down, and tare him. And Jesus rebuked the unclean spirit, and healed the child, and delivered him again to his father."I never said choke, but apparently the bible did have some influence on their actions. god didn't answer within the first couple of minutes of the "healing" while with the boy, so they continued.I'm assuming that the family read the bible, and im pretty sure the bishop read that passage unless he got the idea out of "healing" the boy out of High Times Magazine.

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I never said choke

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You didn't have too. The article does for you.

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but apparently the bible did have some influence on their actions.

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True.

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god didn't answer within the first couple of minutes of the "healing" while with the boy, so they continued.

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Maybe God didn't "answer" because maybe the boy wasn't possessed?

The article never mentions "choking". Choking, in the form you are using it, is physically using your hands to purposely kill. They smoothered him and their purpose was not to kill him. god should have done something to stop the process."Maybe God didn't "answer" because maybe the boy wasn't possessed?"So god only can help or aid people that are possessed? People that believe in god always say that they have talked to god. If god had the wisdom to create life, he should obliviously be able to preserve his followers under the teaching of the bible. I believe that the bible sanctioned this action. And as I stated previously the bishop got this idea out of the bible.

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Well judging that the Bible is the most accurate collection of books ever (siloam tunnel, kings, dates, times)

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Sorry, there is not much that is accurate about the Bible with regards to prophecy or history.Ask any non-fundamentalist Bible scholar.

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and countless people come here and preach about christianity being the "right one"

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But maybe the correct religion isn't the one which encourages people to spread the word.What if the correct religion is one which welcomes you if you discover it, such as Judaism or Buddhism but is not so arrogant as to attempt to convert as many people as possible?Lots of people think that astrology, or alien abduction, or homeopathy is true, but that doesn't make it so.

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Does this "healing" include the recent story about that autistic african - american boy who was smothered by a minister and this family members?

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I am sorry, but this has got to be one of the most awful examples of ignorant, superstitious, idiotic religious behavior I have ever heard.Sounds like they ought to spend a little less time praying for God to fix things and a lot more time getting off their intellectual asses and learn how to think for themselves and solve their own problems.

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Ask any non-fundamentalist Bible scholar.

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Why don't you? Most NON-FUNDAMENTALIST scholars agree with my statement. Check out coryps siloam dates forum.

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Sorry, there is not much that is accurate about the Bible with regards to prophecy or history.

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History Channel: Minimalists vs. Bible defenders(again)Siloam tunnel dates: Netscape ISP HomepageThe book of IsaiahArcheological digs finding evidences of the bible. Such as Kings, dates, great destructions that happened there.Dead sea scrolls:

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Some of the oldest texts of the Bible were found in 1947 near the Dead Sea in Palestine. Hence, they were called the Dead Sea Scrolls. Further scrolls were recovered from five principal sites in the area up to the 1960s. The scrolls were written by a Jewish sect called the Essenes that flourished in Qumran from the mid-second century BC to AD 68. The majority of the scrolls were written during the first centuries BC and AD. Determining the age of the scrolls was simplified by the discovery of a number of coins and other dated artifacts hidden within the scrolls.

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The scrolls contained passages from every book of the Old Testament except Esther. In some cases there were only small passages but in others large tracts were written. For example, in the Psalms scrolls, Psalms 100 to 150 are complete.

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A comparison of the various sections from the Dead Sea Scrolls with the Bible shows complete agreement. Compare these sections from Hosea chapter two just as an example. Many such comparisons can be made with similar accuracy. rci.org

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Jericho: "Digging Up Jericho" by Kathleen KenyonA place where King David attacked and conquered was recently discovered at a dig in Israel, findings of burnt pottery, signs of extreme fire.

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but is not so arrogant as to attempt to convert as many people as possible?

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So telling people about what you believe is arrogance?King David: http://www.gnmagazine.org/issues/gn14/archaeol.htmlKing Solomon's temples foundation is still there

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There is a lot of archeology evidence they have found in the last 100 years. The city of Jerico has been execavated. The Chaldean city of Ur that Abraham was from was occupied up to about 2500 years ago. So the remains of that is still there. The Chaldeans as a people are still alive today, even there are 100,000 of them in the USA. Today they are mostly Catholic.

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The remains of Babylon of course is still there. It has never been rebuilt, even though they have tried to rebuild it over the years. There are still patches of the Cedar Forests of Lebanon where Solomon got the wood to build the temple and his palace. The Cedar forest we are told is second in beauty only to Eden itself.

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In fact a lot of the things in the Bible you can still find. The Garden that Jesus use to love to go to and pray is still there. The burning bush of moses is said to still be alive and is being protected in the center of a monastery. They say there is a place in the desert where the quail are tired from their long flight and drop exhausted out of the sky. Just as the Bible talks about. The area Moses went to pray is a popular place for people who are healthy enough to climb the mountain to visit it.

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-from JohnR7 at christianforumsOK now before you say that you wanted all unbiased sources, for I did give you many, think about this, EVERYONE IS BIASED. Unbiased information is SCARCE. Before you dismiss christian links at least see what they have to say.[This message has been edited by messenjaH supreme ruler of EvCforum, 09-30-2003][This message has been edited by messenjaH supreme ruler of EvCforum, 09-30-2003][This message has been edited by messenjaH, 09-30-2003]