|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total) |
| |
ChatGPT | |
Total: 916,817 Year: 4,074/9,624 Month: 945/974 Week: 272/286 Day: 33/46 Hour: 5/3 |
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Biblical atrocities... ???? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Mr. Davies Inactive Member |
That is supposed to mean that god sent Christ down to die for our sins. Somehow, that is supposed to make everything ok.
Why death means squat to a god is beyond me. Even if Jesus spent three days in Hell for the sins of humanity, so what? According to many in the Christian community, people spend an eternity there. ------------------When all else fails, check the manual
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Mr. Davies Inactive Member |
This part of Funky's post really made me think:
quote: The part in bold really gets me. When god had his chosen slaughter their foes, which they did through deception when they circumcized the males leaving them defenseless, everyone was killed. Everyone that is except for the virgin females. Any woman who had known a man[/i] and infants were put to the sword. What children or widows are you referring to? ------------------When all else fails, check the manual
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Mr. Davies Inactive Member |
quote: And god knew this before man was even created. This god, who is supposed to be omnipotent or so I've been told, created an imperfect being, man, yet this god holds all of humanity to a high standard. Failure to adhere to the standards results in an eternity of torture. Sounds to me that this god set most, if not all, of humanity up for failure.
quote: So this god's chosen was not much better than their contemporaries. While they did not toss babies in pits of wild, starving dogs, ala some of the more barbaric peoples, neither did most societies of the time. So, what made god favor some of humanity over another? As a parent, I surely never even appear to favor one of my kids over the others. I don't want them to kill each other either. Also, when they want to know what the rules are, I don't scribble things in books, leave cryptic messages, or tell one kid one thing and their siblings something else, I go in and clarify it for all of them, gathering them all in one room if I need to do that. I know I'm just a mere mortal man, but I'll stack my parenting skills up against this god's any day and I'll come out on top.
quote: Why just them? There are many deserving people in the world, yet this god chosen kist one particular tribe to protect and lead them out from their enemies, no matter what their crime they committed against their contemporaries. I don't know of any human that does screw up at least once a day, but why god's chosen stayed chosen is just plain wrong. If that isn't playing favorites with your children, I don't know what would be.
quote: So this god's law is mutable? Your god allows even his chosen to behave like semi-barbarians because it was an earlier time? Seems to me there are many laws that say how to make sure you always keep your mind focused on not pissing of god, but the laws about people, stone them to death for many different infractions and kill your enemies, seems to be completely lacking. ------------------When all else fails, check the manual
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Mr. Davies Inactive Member |
quote: Well it's like this. As a former Christian myself, I came to understand that the God of Abraham was not a nice being. You can tell me till your blue in the face on how your God is just, caring, and benevolent. However many here, and its not just me, can easily use the Bible to show you just how the God of the Bible is nothing of the sort. The OT is full of how God was going to punish his chosen for turning away from Him, but it also shows God turning a blind eye so his chosen can rob, maim, kill, and just rape those He did not find worthy. Why God did not bother coming down and showing His other cildren the way is plain wrong. As God is the creator of us all, supposedly, and we are, again supposedly, all His children, the utter contempt this god has for most of its children boarders on the criminally insane. Why God or any parent would favor one child over the next to the point of letting a select few butcher the others is beyond the pale. However when you are asked why your God allows and encourages the chosen ones to kill and rape, you say "It's His Justice" or something equivalent. As there is no justice there, unless you twist the words ala 1984, you'd be better off saying "My God can do what He wants, so down on your knees and beg for forgiveness".
quote: Well my short answer is I don't believe in your God at all. I was asked, by you I think, what type of god or gods do I believe in. Well I still don't know but I doubt if it's anything like what is described in the OT. If there is a god that created us all and it allows its children to behave like butchers, then it doesn't care, lives through us, or maybe even something else that I can't think of at the moment. But don't tel me your God is all kind and just as it is not.
quote: Ok, but what about non-Christian god or a different god other than the God of Abraham? If I were to read to a bunch of Christians what the God of the OT did but with a changed name, the syntax dressed up in different phrases and changing the stories ever so slightly, but doing the same things to humanity, allowing some chosen class to do what they want to enemies of their god, they'd act in total revulsion. What is so funny is when you compare the actions of this created deity next to theirs from the OT and watch a paradygm shift without a clutch. While your God can do anything you want Him to do because He's God, it does not make Him Holy, righteous or even right.
quote: The "M" part of an "S&M" couple also says something like, "My Master is perfectly fair to a little miscreant like me, isn't that right Master?".
quote: I don't deny the existence of some deity or deities, I think yours is either A) A petty, egotistical tyrant or B) Non-existant. Just because I don't believe in your God does not make me an atheist. Just like not believing in Amen-Ra makes you an atheist either.
quote: Perfectly Holy? By whose standards? Not by mine or some on this board. Yes, we may be holding up you God to our imperfect human standards but even still your God fails the Humane tests. The rest of your arguement is circular and without meaning. You hold that your God can do no wrong, fine. However, I seriously doubt you give credence to another deity or deities from other cultures and religions. So why should yours get any respect for acting like a spoiled child (worship me or die for all eternity!)? As for not being innocent, this God of yours is supposedly omnipotent and may know before conception if a person is going to hell or not. Yet the pain and suffering that we've been told awaits us in hell is not on His list to worry about. If your God is truly just, then I don't fear my death and standing before Him. I would think a just and righteous god would not worry what a scant 60, 70, or even 120 years are compared to eternity. I also don't think that a righteous God requires worship or in need of praise from His creations. If He is, then He's a raving Egomaniac and I doubt any of us could stand before Him and not piss Him off in our imperfection. ------------------When all else fails, check the manual
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Mr. Davies Inactive Member |
Yeah, the true believers seem to be very quiet on this subject.
Catch theeir god in a lie, then the answer is "You can't judge my god by the laws of man" and then turn around and ask just where do you think laws came from in the first place. Ah, the mental gymnastics needed. ------------------When all else fails, check the manual
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Mr. Davies Inactive Member |
Intersting take on what God condones or just wants to regulate.
So God wanted to regulate slavery as it was spread throughout the time of the OT. That's fine but let's look at what else God did back then, according to the Bible. 1: He flooded the world because men were so wicked. Now this makes things even more interesting as if Noah and his family were the only ones left standing, he should have been able to lay down the law and tell them firmly "NO SLAVES". 2: A prophet set forth wild animals to kill children who had the audacity to tease his bald head. 3: Killed the first born in Egypt to "Let His people go". 4: Destroyed Sodom as it was so evil and wicked. 5: Forced his people to wander the desert for 40 years because they had a golden calf. It seems that this God is far more concerned on how it is worshipped than how people, His children, treat each other. 6: The 10 Commandments say nothing about slavery. So why did God do all of these other things to correct the wickedness or lapses in worshipping Him but not say to his chosen, especially when the 10 Commandments were handed to them? ------------------When all else fails, check the manual
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Mr. Davies Inactive Member |
(this is in response to Kolyahu in post #30)
I have no idea why you posted what you did. If you're trying to justify the actions that has been attributed to God or his chosen with the errors that our glorious leader is doing today, well God's a god and Bush, well, I'm not impressed. So, why did God allow slavery when He had made it loud and clear about what would happen if people committed other sins that God seemed to be more concerned with? ------------------When all else fails, check the manual [This message has been edited by Mr. Davies, 12-30-2002]
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Mr. Davies Inactive Member |
Why would God need to kill anyone? If God kills somebody, then it shows that God, the Omnipotent, Allpowerful, Omnipresent being that He is can't find a better way to handle one of His children?
From what I've seen, God has allowed people to be killed by his chosen for whatever reason, kill the first born as punishment with plagues and curses, or just drown them. Question: Did God ever go to those that were about to be slaughtered and said, "Hey look here, you're making Me mad and I'd like to show you better ways to do your work, without hurting others! Oh, yeah and if you're going to worship something else that you think will help you, well, here's what I am doing for you, so if you want to worship somebody, worship Me as I AM the real deal." Answer: No. He just slaughtered them. ------------------When all else fails, check the manual
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Mr. Davies Inactive Member |
quote: Them Leviticus did not get his laws from God? These were not inspired laws but Laws of Men? What else in the Bible could be man made and not inspired by God?
quote: Slaves were not considered to be people or your neighbor. Still, God, the Omnipotent One, let it go on for so long.
quote: What does that mean?
quote: Wait, they were God's chosen and instead of allowing another tribe to become His chosen, he stuck with them? What made them so special? Also, it was God that let them have the virgin concubines, unless of course that's another part of what men said and not really what God wanted.
quote: Nice stretch. They did not need either. The prohibition on slavery, rape, etc., should have been direct with punishments of death for those who defied God's law. After all, what's wrong with God killing anybody right?
quote: God, the Immortal One, the One Who Is, the Omniscient One, changes his mind? ------------------When all else fails, check the manual
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Mr. Davies Inactive Member |
From Funkmasterfreaky:
quote: Then what purpose did the flood serve for then? Why kill the first born in Egypt to punish those children for their parent's sins? The more things are explained in this fashion, ie, "God's ways are not our ways", "God is mysterious so we should worship Him", and the like, I find it even harder to accept your God. Can you then say that God was wrong? No? Even God himself regretted His actions in the flood, seriously underminding any claims that He is omnipotent.
quote: Okay, if the Isrealites were not much better than many of their contemporaries, why did God even bother with them? It would seem God would have been able to trach a more advanced society, the Greeks, the Persians, even the Chinese all of whom were more civilized? The Chinese should have been the first choice! I know, God works in mysterious ways and His ways are not our ways which is fine as I don't kill my children. ------------------When all else fails, check the manual
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Mr. Davies Inactive Member |
quote:quote: To preserve Isreal? Why? What makes them so special. As for killing someone to prevent them from doing something worse, well God seems to be a lazy guy as it would have been easier if He would have appeared to them and save, "Look my child....." and teach them. There is no need for an omnipotent God to resort to killing somebody. I know, freewill, but tell me, what freewill does a dead man have? What choices would a godless man have if they have never seen or heard of the Truth? If God only cares to preserve His children of Isreal to the determent of all of His other children, why should His other Children give a rats ass for that kind of a parent?
quote:quote: Well, something tells me that you don't see the word of God as being inerrant in so far as humans are writing it down. That's fine. Still it is true, if the flood was true, that God slaughtered infants whose only crime was that God felt their mothers were guilty of something. ------------------When all else fails, check the manual
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024