What makes you unbelieve Crash ?

Born2Preach,re: ...there is no believer alive today that I know of without doubt.Are you saying that John 3:16 could be written: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that even if someone doubts it, as long as they think that there might be a chance that He is the son of God, that they should not perish, but have everlasting life?

Unseul,re: "I think on the whole we have once again come to the conclusion that atheist disbelieve due to no logical evidence. Believers believe because surely its obvious he exists, and prayers do seem to be answered. And agnostics don’t really care that much either way, just look for good science/explanations. Anyone wanna add anything important to that?"Do you think that there is conscious CHOICE involved with any of those positions?

Unseul,re: ...on religious basis, especially in an open society, then yeah there’s a choice. I know I made a choice to be an atheist...I have never been able to actually consciously CHOOSE any of the beliefs that I have and I would like to be able to do that - for example to effect a belief in a supreme being or to believe that it is possible for me to become a more compassionate person. Since you seem to be saying that you can consciously CHOOSE to believe things, I wonder if you might explain how you do it. What do you do at the last moment to instantly change your one state of belief to another?

Unseul,re: You can change your beliefs...And that is what I would like to learn. How do you CHOOSE to do that - consciously CHOOSE to believe something? Exactly what do you do that allows you to say: Okay, I have obtained information about X and while I still do not believe that X exists, I am going to CHOOSE to believe - be convinced without a doubt - that X exists and - poof - I now believe that X exists? Perhaps you could use something like leprechauns to demonstrate your technique. According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, a leprechaun is a fairy peculiar to Ireland, who appeared in the form of an old man of minute stature, wearing a cocked hat and a leather apron. So, assuming that you don’t already have a belief in them, how about right now, while you are reading this, CHOOSE to believe - be convinced without a doubt - that they exist. Now that you believe in leprechauns, my question is, how did you do it? How did you make the instantaneous transition from lack of belief to belief?

Born2Preach,re: ...the Bible also talks about the flesh which does its share in deception and doubt. We're all supposed to have it even after our Rebirth, so I guess we all have some doubt according to scripture, huh?I guess we’re just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I simply don’t see how a person can doubt that a supreme being exists and at the same time be saved.

Unseul,re: I could do with a bit more proof about the leprechauns...But I still choose whether or not it is sufficient proof. How do you know when you have enough evidence/proof? What is the indicator that would allow you to say: Okay, I have obtained all the information that I need about 'X' and while I still do not believe that 'X' exists, I am going to CHOOSE to believe - be convinced without a doubt - that 'X' exists and - poof - I now believe that 'X' exists"?
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RingoKid,re: ...faith in your abilities and trust in the process by which you arrived at your truth...By arriving at truth do you mean obtaining a belief?

Unseul,re: When you feel there is enough, there is enough.But exactly what is the feeling? Isn’t it the sudden realization that you now believe?