|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total) |
| |
ChatGPT | |
Total: 916,788 Year: 4,045/9,624 Month: 916/974 Week: 243/286 Day: 4/46 Hour: 0/1 |
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: What makes you unbelieve Crash ? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
jt Member (Idle past 5623 days) Posts: 239 From: Upper Portion, Left Coast, United States Joined: |
reality far removed from yours yet it is no less valid than yours I think you misunderstand the word "reality." Merriam-Webster's online defines reality as:
the quality or state of being real It defines "real" as:
having objective independent existence By definition, there is only one reality, which is has an objective (meaning it exists whether anyone believes it or not), independent (of who believes it or not) existence. I do not have "my reality" and you do not have "your reality." What you and I have is an opinion of what reality is. This opinion is shaped by fallible sensory input of a small portion of reality, so yes, we cannot necessarily know what "reality" is. It is a non sequitor to go from the premise "I can't know what it is like" to "It doesn't exist." I think you are saying "reality" but meaning something different. Could you give a definition of the concept you are talking about when you say "reality"?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
RingoKid Inactive Member |
My "reality" is my surroundings, work environment, family, culture, language, codes of conduct...etc and the truth I hold is what i know to be able to survive and interact within that. That's what's real to me...
...now your set of circumstances within which you define your existence may be totally different and your truth if you hold fast to it might not ensure your survival in my reality use the yanomamo as an example again...
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
jt Member (Idle past 5623 days) Posts: 239 From: Upper Portion, Left Coast, United States Joined: |
Your definition is the same as the dictionary definition of surroundings, except with a little more detail. "the circumstances, conditions, or objects by which one is surrounded is how m-w online defines surroundings.
and your truth if you hold fast to it might not ensure your survival in my reality You need to use a dictionary more. "Truth" is defined as "the body of real things, events, and facts, and I already gave the definition for reality. There is not a varying truth; truth is the facts and things that are real. I do not have a different truth than you, you do not have a different reality than me. What do you mean by survival? Would I die if my consciousness was put in your body and I had to deal with your "reality"? You are using all the wrong words to say what you mean. It is as if you are using words as analogies or something. I'm sure you have good, significant things to say, you just need to figure out the right words to say them.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
RingoKid Inactive Member |
quibbling over semantics and for what purpose ???
I have my truth and what is real to me in my world...it's different to what you believe and what's real to you respect the difference instead of trying to change others to fit your definitions.... ...and thanx for the advice but I think I'll stick to my own meaning of truth and reality they make more sense BTW would you die in my reality ???...maybe it depends what your truth is..ie what you believe Do american soldiers believe the same as what iraqi terrorists believe ???...NO Is the reality of iraqi life different to that experienced by american soldiers ???...YES Are they dying ???...YES and all this for what ??? Is their GOD the same ???...YES Can you successfully convince iraqis of the truth that american style democracy is better for them ???...I doubt it Maybe they'd be better of all sitting round reading the dictionary instead...
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
sidelined Member (Idle past 5934 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
RingoKid
I have my truth and what is real to me in my world I hope what you are saying here is not that you are subject to different natural laws from the rest of the universe as that is an absursd position to take. Do you mean you create your own reality and,if so,what does that mean? "We cannot define anything precisely! If we attempt to, we get into that paralysis of thought that comes to philosophers, who sit opposite each other, one saying to the other, 'You don't know what you are talking about!' The second one says 'What do you mean by know? What do you mean by talking? What do you mean by you?', and so on."
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Melchior Inactive Member |
I think what he means is that while things such as natural laws affect us all the same, a very large part of our lives as individuals is that we have different views on what is important, how to relate to the world around us, and how to relate to other people.
It isn't so much that reality is different, but that our perception of it is definitely subjective. And in many field (not much in science, but much in politics, for example) our subjective view is what makes us function as humans.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
jt Member (Idle past 5623 days) Posts: 239 From: Upper Portion, Left Coast, United States Joined: |
quibbling over semantics and for what purpose ??? Because your meaning wasn't clear. The way you were using the words didn't make sense. Your opinions would have a much greater affect on people if they could understand better what you were saying. It appears that I've annoyed you, for which I apologize. I am not trying to invalidate your opinions on basis of semantics. I'm just trying to understand you opinions, and help you make your opinions more understandable for everbody else, too. Benoit Mandelbrot is not a type of wine.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
RingoKid Inactive Member |
yeah sorry bout that JT, I just hate it when words on the screen tell me I need to do something...
"Lastly never think you know the absolute truth or the ultimate reality because your personal perception of truth and reality will only ever be your opinion..." or to put it another way...what Melchior said It doesn't matter what we believe or what we think is real because we as individuals will never get consensus as only God knows what the absolute truth and the ultimate reality are... ...I don't mean we create our own reality I mean we define what is real to us based on our personal beliefs. God created the universe we are trying to define it but anyway I don't see the point in arguing, fighting or warring over personal beliefs... To me it all reduces down to " the golden rule"
Versions of the Golden Rule in dozens of religions and other sources of which you could argue "tit for tat" is also an example and the "universal law of karma" http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/... {Shortened display form of URL, to restore page width to normal - Adminnemooseus} which dictates your rewards in the grand scheme of things according to how you practise the rule... ...and they all revolve around free will <<(edited to fix broken link)>> This message has been edited by RingoKid, 05-09-2004 07:38 AM This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 05-10-2004 12:22 AM
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
sidelined Member (Idle past 5934 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
Melchior
It isn't so much that reality is different, but that our perception of it is definitely subjective. I disagree. I would say our perceptions are the same barring any inherent faults in the senses themselves.{colorblindness,deafness etc.} I would even go so far as to say that the wiring of the brain is mostly the same. Our interpretation of or what meaning we assign to information provided by our brain and sense organs are varied but they must also follow some level of the same pattern or else it would seem to me that we would be incapable of interaction or agree ment and even disagreement.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
RingoKid Inactive Member |
Have you interacted with anybody from a radically different culture regarding their personal beliefs and perceptions of reality...
someone like an Australian aborigine or an Amazonian indian... do you know what they believe to be real ??? ...or is your opinion of a personal and subjective nature that requires no proof as it is purely your own perception that matters ???
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
rstrats Member (Idle past 129 days) Posts: 138 Joined: |
Unseul,
re: I could do with a bit more proof about the leprechauns...But I still choose whether or not it is sufficient proof. How do you know when you have enough evidence/proof? What is the indicator that would allow you to say: Okay, I have obtained all the information that I need about 'X' and while I still do not believe that 'X' exists, I am going to CHOOSE to believe - be convinced without a doubt - that 'X' exists and - poof - I now believe that 'X' exists"?-
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
RingoKid Inactive Member |
I know it was directed at Unseul but perhaps this might help rstrats...
quote:
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Unseul Inactive Member |
What he said
When you feel there is enough, there is enough. If you don't either keep looking or drop it. Unseul Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life....
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
One_Charred_Wing Member (Idle past 6182 days) Posts: 690 From: USA West Coast Joined: |
Is it just me, or has Crashfrog been long out of this thread?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Darwin Storm Inactive Member |
Well, it has drifted a bit off topic, which was why was Crash an unbeliever. If crash felt he answered that question, there isnt much point in continuing this particular thread.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024