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Author Topic:   What happens after death for an atheist?
Lizard Breath
Member (Idle past 6695 days)
Posts: 376
Joined: 10-19-2003


Message 121 of 162 (183746)
02-07-2005 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by 1.61803
02-07-2005 3:13 PM


Re: Tide goes in, tide goes out.
Hoooowwwwws it goin 1.61803,
I was posting from the grand cosmic perspective and not from an individual human one. The fact that we are dialoging means that everything that is said in here has meaning and purpose.
quote:
So these words you are reading do they have any meaning to you?
They have meaning because they have context. They have context because we have an agreed upon language. You could have typed the same letters but in a different order random and they would be meaningless.
To say that a life has meaning would infer that there is an agreed upon context to life. This would require an infussion of intellegence. Since the universe has no guiding intellegence (cosmically speaking), then all of our lives are like jumbo-ed up letters random. No context and therefore no meaning. The letters themselves cannot create meaning.
It's the context behind the letters that makes meaning in the life.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by 1.61803, posted 02-07-2005 3:13 PM 1.61803 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by 1.61803, posted 02-07-2005 3:41 PM Lizard Breath has replied

  
Lizard Breath
Member (Idle past 6695 days)
Posts: 376
Joined: 10-19-2003


Message 122 of 162 (183750)
02-07-2005 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by kjsimons
02-07-2005 3:21 PM


Re: Tide goes in, tide goes out.
Well, I'm not done coorosponding with you yet, so you will stay here.
quote:
Furthermore your responses are troll like and I have no further wish to correspond with you.
Ok, Ok. What could I do so that my responses are not so "troll like" so you would want to continue on with this discussion? To be fair, I was trying to convey an honest perspective of how you derive a life of meaning out of a reality based on chaeos as science describes.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by kjsimons, posted 02-07-2005 3:21 PM kjsimons has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by kjsimons, posted 02-07-2005 3:51 PM Lizard Breath has replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1503 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 123 of 162 (183753)
02-07-2005 3:41 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by Lizard Breath
02-07-2005 3:31 PM


Re: Tide goes in, tide goes out.
Lizard Breath writes:
It's the context behind the letter that makes meaning in the life.
I feel that energy becoming sentient from unknown orgins to be both perplexing and exciting. Because humans at this time do not know the answers of how this happened allows room for theist and atheist to postulate.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by Lizard Breath, posted 02-07-2005 3:31 PM Lizard Breath has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by Lizard Breath, posted 02-07-2005 3:47 PM 1.61803 has not replied

  
Lizard Breath
Member (Idle past 6695 days)
Posts: 376
Joined: 10-19-2003


Message 124 of 162 (183755)
02-07-2005 3:47 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by 1.61803
02-07-2005 3:41 PM


Re: Tide goes in, tide goes out.
If if was so easy, one way or the other, I suppose this forum would degenerate to be just another dating chat room.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by 1.61803, posted 02-07-2005 3:41 PM 1.61803 has not replied

  
tsig
Member (Idle past 2908 days)
Posts: 738
From: USA
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 125 of 162 (183756)
02-07-2005 3:47 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by LDSdude
02-02-2005 7:25 PM


death is universal
What happens after death for an Atheist.
We do see that everything that lives, dies. We see what happens to that life. Why should it be any different for humans?
Speaking of living after dieing is a contradiction in terms.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by LDSdude, posted 02-02-2005 7:25 PM LDSdude has not replied

  
kjsimons
Member
Posts: 821
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003
Member Rating: 6.7


Message 126 of 162 (183757)
02-07-2005 3:51 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by Lizard Breath
02-07-2005 3:36 PM


Re: Tide goes in, tide goes out.
The problem with your responses are they are sophomoric and don't add to the discussion. It's like I say I like the color purple and you come back and say "How can you like purple if the universe has no purpose?". That's not a discussion that's a way to pick a fight and is very troll-like.
To be fair, I was trying to convey an honest perspective of how you derive a life of meaning out of a reality based on chaeos as science describes.
Most people don't derive meaning from life from what science tells us, we derive meaning from life from what interests us, drives us, moves us, and just being. Science our best tool to discover how everything works within our abilities to use it and it sometimes tells us stuff that's hard to face. But should I hide from that reality by buring my face in mythology or should I accept the reality and go forward and enjoy life? I chose to enjoy life.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by Lizard Breath, posted 02-07-2005 3:36 PM Lizard Breath has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by tsig, posted 02-07-2005 3:56 PM kjsimons has replied
 Message 130 by Lizard Breath, posted 02-07-2005 4:24 PM kjsimons has not replied

  
tsig
Member (Idle past 2908 days)
Posts: 738
From: USA
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 127 of 162 (183760)
02-07-2005 3:56 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by kjsimons
02-07-2005 3:51 PM


Re: Tide goes in, tide goes out.
The problem with your responses are they are sophomoric and don't add to the discussion. It's like I say I like the color purple and you come back and say "How can you like purple if the universe has no purpose?". That's not a discussion that's a way to pick a fight and is very troll-like.
Then why respond?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by kjsimons, posted 02-07-2005 3:51 PM kjsimons has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by kjsimons, posted 02-07-2005 4:05 PM tsig has not replied

  
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 128 of 162 (183763)
02-07-2005 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by Brian
02-07-2005 10:33 AM


Oh, the psychological abuse!!
Brian writes:
Countless millions of children have been psychologically abused over the centuries by their parents, who force the child to believe in their faith. There should be a religous age of consent whereby children under a certain age should not be allowed to follow a religion.
If it were not for this forced religion, children when they grew up would have one less thing to rebel against with such zest. I've always regretted that I grew up in a home where nobody gave a damn about religion one way or the other, and so I had nothing to rebel against and be deliciously superior about--nothing to congratulate myself about as compared to my ignorant parents. The only time I ever went to church was when a friend invited me to go to Vacation Bible School (Southern Baptist version). Neither I nor my friend paid any attention to the stuff they talked about. We were mainly there for the food and also to look at girls. We did get into some trouble, however, because in those days I and my friend were rather mischievous. We gave a hot foot to the preacher, whom I recall had excessively large feet, and we were accused of stealing the Kool-Aid and cookies (this was a false charge; it wasn't us).
That was my only experience with public religion, and as a result I'm a Goddamned nihilist.
I don't know why you are so upset about religion in these families. Why doesn't anybody ever mention something good that religious people do? I know this church where my stepson goes--you know what they do? They adopt kids who have no home, whose parents are in prison or dead or on Death Row. If not for this adoption, most of these kids would end as drug pushers and 5-dollar street whores. Do they teach them their religion? Of course they do. So what? It's better than the alternative.
What happened, did a nun crack you on the head with a ruler when you were 11? You were probably a brat like me and deserved it.

The mind is its own place, and in itself
Can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.---Milton

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Brian, posted 02-07-2005 10:33 AM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by Brian, posted 02-07-2005 8:13 PM robinrohan has replied

  
kjsimons
Member
Posts: 821
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003
Member Rating: 6.7


Message 129 of 162 (183764)
02-07-2005 4:05 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by tsig
02-07-2005 3:56 PM


Re: Tide goes in, tide goes out.
Then why respond?
Because he asked a question. Maybe honestly, maybe not, but I thought it deserved an answer. Now if he keeps up his modus operani, then I will stop responding.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by tsig, posted 02-07-2005 3:56 PM tsig has not replied

  
Lizard Breath
Member (Idle past 6695 days)
Posts: 376
Joined: 10-19-2003


Message 130 of 162 (183768)
02-07-2005 4:24 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by kjsimons
02-07-2005 3:51 PM


Re: Tide goes in, tide goes out.
Ok, I see where you are coming from.
You can enjoy the color purple (even though the universe has no purpose) just the same as if the color purple came from a Creator. And if what you want out of life is enjoyment, fame, popularity, money, carreer success and all of that, you certainly don't need a creator in your life to aquire that.
But even all of that has no purpose or meaning when you talk about death. When you get up to the wall of death, no one ever says that they wished they'd have spent more time at the office, or more time going out partying or more time doing whatever else you do to attain the aformentioned entities. They all come back to the same square and wish they'd have more time with family or they start to wonder about God.
It's the strangest thing when your in a live fire situation or just about to go into one. Dudes that never had a need for religion suddenly start to pray or they seek out the ones who do and ask them to pray. Crazy stuff. When your in a plane in Bahgdad International and mortars start going off around you, life's meaning becomes forefront.
So I don't equate happiness or enjoyment in life with meaning in life. What I was getting at was in a cosmic perspective, there is no meaning, but I should have qualified it by saying that the phenomena of enjoyment doesn't depend on meaning's existance.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by kjsimons, posted 02-07-2005 3:51 PM kjsimons has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by robinrohan, posted 02-07-2005 6:01 PM Lizard Breath has not replied

  
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 131 of 162 (183794)
02-07-2005 6:01 PM
Reply to: Message 130 by Lizard Breath
02-07-2005 4:24 PM


Enjoyment dependent on meaning
Lizard Breath writes:
the phenomena of enjoyment doesn't depend on meaning's existance.
It does after awhile depend on meaning.
After awhile, the enjoyment isn't enjoyable anymore.
And it doesn't matter what kind of enjoyment we are referring to either--physical, intellectual, whatever.
At least that's been my experience.
And you know what the most horrible feeling is, which I hope you have never felt and will never feel?
It is the feeling of the VACUITY of life, expressed well in the following verse:
"Or as, when an underground train, in the tube, stops too long between stations,
And the conversation rises and slowly fades into silence
And you see behind every face the mental emptiness deepen
Leaving only the growing terror of nothing to think about . . ."
--T. S. Eliot

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by Lizard Breath, posted 02-07-2005 4:24 PM Lizard Breath has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 132 of 162 (183797)
02-07-2005 6:14 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by sidelined
02-06-2005 1:14 PM


Re: Time
Isn't that ignorance?
Pretty limited view of another demension. I really expected more from you. I know you dream about things like that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by sidelined, posted 02-06-2005 1:14 PM sidelined has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by sidelined, posted 02-07-2005 10:50 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 133 of 162 (183807)
02-07-2005 7:43 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by PecosGeorge
02-07-2005 2:36 PM


Re: Gary and all
It's almost as ludicrous as the New Testament.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by PecosGeorge, posted 02-07-2005 2:36 PM PecosGeorge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by PecosGeorge, posted 02-08-2005 12:36 PM Brian has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 134 of 162 (183813)
02-07-2005 8:13 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by robinrohan
02-07-2005 4:03 PM


Re: Oh, the psychological abuse!!
If it were not for this forced religion, children when they grew up would have one less thing to rebel against with such zest.
What about the ones that don't rebel against it?
Why should they be abused like this?
Why should a child go through a baptism without giving its consent?
Why should a child have the end of its dick cut off without the child's consent?
I've always regretted that I grew up in a home where nobody gave a damn about religion
You are talking shit.
one way or the other, and so I had nothing to rebel against and be deliciously superior about--nothing to congratulate myself about as compared to my ignorant parents.
You are looking back through adult 'glasses', you would find something to rebel about. To think that religion was the only thing to rebel against is a joke.
That was my only experience with public religion, and as a result I'm a Goddamned nihilist.
Well, it is better than being a Christian.
I don't know why you are so upset about religion in these families.
Because I care about children that's why, you should try it.
Why doesn't anybody ever mention something good that religious people do?
Because they NEVER do anything out of goodwill, they NEVER help anyone for the sake of helping them. They ALWAYS abuse their charity, they always have to mention Jesus to the unfortunate, it is disgraceful, they should be ashamed of themselves.
I know this church where my stepson goes--you know what they do? They adopt kids who have no home, whose parents are in prison or dead or on Death Row. If not for this adoption, most of these kids would end as drug pushers and 5-dollar street whores.
Don't talk shit, what a fucking embarrassing thing to say. What are you, the fuckin Delphi Oracle?
Do they teach them their religion? Of course they do. So what? It's better than the alternative.
Oh I see, let's earn their trust, take them in, earn thier repsect, they think were are good people, then let's take advantage of their situation and suffocte them with the Jesus bull. How can these people live with themselves? it is criminal.
What happened, did a nun crack you on the head with a ruler when you were 11? You were probably a brat like me and deserved it.
Nah I was Church of Scotland, I wasn't a brat, I have more Bible Class certificates than I care to mention. What is embarrassing is how moronic I must have been to believe in Jesus.
Catch you later
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by robinrohan, posted 02-07-2005 4:03 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by jar, posted 02-07-2005 8:20 PM Brian has replied
 Message 141 by robinrohan, posted 02-07-2005 9:41 PM Brian has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 135 of 162 (183816)
02-07-2005 8:20 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by Brian
02-07-2005 8:13 PM


Re: Oh, the psychological abuse!!
Brian,is all that true?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by Brian, posted 02-07-2005 8:13 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by Brian, posted 02-07-2005 8:24 PM jar has not replied

  
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