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Author Topic:   What evidence absolutely rules out a Creator
LinearAq
Member (Idle past 4676 days)
Posts: 598
From: Pocomoke City, MD
Joined: 11-03-2004


Message 73 of 300 (294859)
03-13-2006 10:36 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by Faith
03-13-2006 9:45 AM


Confusion with Faith's "My view"
Faith writes:
a perfect God does perfect things.
And yet, this perfect God created:
1. Imperfect angels with free will and enough evil in them to rebel against Him.
2. Imperfect man with free will and enough evil to rebel against Him. Disobedience is rebellion as per the Good Book.
Perhaps we are only defining perfect from our point of view. Especially since the Bible says God had the salvation of man planned from before the world was made (2 Tim 1:9).
Maybe what we have is all part of God's perfect plan including the death of one animal by another. 'Perfect' does not have to mean it is 'good' from our point of view...only 'good' from God's point of view.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Faith, posted 03-13-2006 9:45 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 77 by robinrohan, posted 03-13-2006 10:53 AM LinearAq has replied

LinearAq
Member (Idle past 4676 days)
Posts: 598
From: Pocomoke City, MD
Joined: 11-03-2004


Message 82 of 300 (294891)
03-13-2006 11:21 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by robinrohan
03-13-2006 10:53 AM


Re: Confusion with Faith's "My view"
Your response is not addressing the point of my post. I was saying that the creation we live in may just be the perfection that the God of the Bible intended. He prepared for the salvation of mankind from before He made creation. So how can you maintain that there is no God based on your value system's specification of what is "perfect" or "good". Since you didn't create it, you are in no position to judge the level of "perfection" or "goodness" of God's creation. Additionally, you aren't privy to all of His details of His Plan so you can't judge His "goodness" based on observations of how He designed creation.

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 Message 77 by robinrohan, posted 03-13-2006 10:53 AM robinrohan has not replied

LinearAq
Member (Idle past 4676 days)
Posts: 598
From: Pocomoke City, MD
Joined: 11-03-2004


Message 98 of 300 (294946)
03-13-2006 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Faith
03-13-2006 12:34 PM


The world as God wanted it.
Faith writes:
The serpent was allowed to test their faith, just as Satan was allowed to test Job's faith.
Then God did set things up the way we are today. He is all-knowing so He knew the outcome of what He set up. We can only conclude that the world is the way it is because God put together the circumstances that would make it that way.
From your own logic, God cannot make an imperfect creation, so I conclude that this creation is perfect and good.
The Biblical Inerrantists creation, with all its killing and bloodshed, is perfect and good. Then, how can we say that God could not make the world's biosphere through evolution, with all the death required. I believe He could and still make it perfect and good.

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 Message 94 by Faith, posted 03-13-2006 12:34 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
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LinearAq
Member (Idle past 4676 days)
Posts: 598
From: Pocomoke City, MD
Joined: 11-03-2004


Message 101 of 300 (294952)
03-13-2006 3:24 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by robinrohan
03-13-2006 2:42 PM


Re: My view
robinrohan writes:
God knows what he's going to do but that's not the same thing as making him do it.
That statement would have validity in this case if it weren't for the serpent. It seems that God rigged the race a bit.
God knows what makes us all tick, so He can make circumstances such that we will do what He wants. Hence the serpent. The wife is persuaded by the idea of being like God and Adam is persuaded by the fact that a woman can get a man to do just about anything.
So I would say that God set it up, according to the Bible so that:
The Fall, though bad, yields a greater glory.
Of course, if you believe that the creation we have now is considered by God to be what He wanted, then God could have made the creation work in whatever way He desired and still have it to be perfect and good. So the creation of the biosphere, and man, through evolution does not preclude the existance of God.

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 Message 100 by robinrohan, posted 03-13-2006 2:42 PM robinrohan has not replied

LinearAq
Member (Idle past 4676 days)
Posts: 598
From: Pocomoke City, MD
Joined: 11-03-2004


Message 273 of 300 (296191)
03-17-2006 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 270 by Buzsaw
03-17-2006 9:39 AM


I agree to an extent
Buzsaw writes:
...ordinary common sense should allow for a supernatural ID creator to do supernatural stuff, not being limited to the perameters of physics as finite and fallible humans understand...
True enough, God should be able to "do supernatural stuff". The problem is that He seems to also erase His tracks.
1. He creates a universe only 6000 years ago but puts things in it that make it look billions of years older.
2. He Floods the entire world but leaves mountains of evidence directly conflicts with what should be there as a consequence of that Flood.
3. He provides predictions of the future but when they are borne out they no longer look like predictions.
4. He heals people but only if they are not diagnosed with an ailment first.
I would think He would like to leave definitive tracks so we could follow them to Him. Is their some reason He doesn't?
edited to provide the proper respect to God through capitalization.
This message has been edited by LinearAq, 03-17-2006 10:14 AM

This message is a reply to:
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