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Author Topic:   What evidence absolutely rules out a Creator
PaulK
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Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 128 of 300 (295097)
03-14-2006 3:53 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by Faith
03-13-2006 12:09 AM


quote:
I think it has something to do with a great sea change over the last few decades in the zeitgeist or the philosophical culture we live in. It's something like Robin thinks more like a modernist and most everybody else here thinks like a postmodernist.
That is utter nonsense. I can't think of anyone who is endorsing post-modernism with relation to Robin's arguments. I certainly wouldn't endorse it at all.
quote:
What he's saying would have been recognized by an earlier generation, perhaps disputed, but at least recognized as logical propositions and not regarded as lacking sense as you all read it.
It HAS been challenged - and Robin isn't really able to do a good job of defending his claims. That's why most of us disagree. Robin doesn't really have a good case at all.
quote:
To my mind most of you seem capable of imagining absolute absurdities as refutations of his propositions. I don't see how communication is even possible any more.
If your imagination is too limited to effectively participate in these arguments - which is what you are essentially claiming - then you are free to withdraw.e

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Faith, posted 03-13-2006 12:09 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by Faith, posted 03-14-2006 8:32 AM PaulK has replied

PaulK
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Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 154 of 300 (295207)
03-14-2006 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 131 by Faith
03-14-2006 8:32 AM


So according to your own source post-mdoernism involves:
"A constitutional inability to adopt a reasonable way to tell the good stuff from the bad stuff" -Chip Morningstar
Well that's ironic because you're calling people post-modernists FOR applying critical thinking.
"A generation raised on channel-surfing has lost the capacity for linear thinking and analytical reasoning."
This suffers from the same flaw.
How about this, from the same article:
Postmodern philosophy emphasizes the importance of power relationships, personalization and discourse in the "construction" of truth and world views
This is where I completely part company with post-modernism. The success of science is because it works. While the other factors may have an effect - people being people - the scientific method is a powerful means of overcoming them. And that is why I do not consider your religious beliefs about the history of the Earth to be on a par with the discoveries of science, let alone above them.
Equally the truths of logic are necessary truths, and they are not sociallty constructed either.
So on the relevant points I am not a post-modernist. If anything you and Robin are closer to that position, in insisting that something that seems obvious to you should be accepted as true - and even logical - on those grounds alone. Only a post-modernist could consider such a position to be valid.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by Faith, posted 03-14-2006 8:32 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by Faith, posted 03-14-2006 11:48 AM PaulK has replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 156 of 300 (295219)
03-14-2006 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by Faith
03-14-2006 11:48 AM


But I'm not eliminating objective judgements. In objective terms "it seems obvious to me" is just a subjective opinion. That is an objective fact. You are attacking people for recognising the distinction between objective facts and your subjective opinions. And that's another objective fact.
Your problem is not that your opponents lack standards - it is that they DO have standards. And "it seems obvious to me" falls frmly into the "bad stuff" side.

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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 253 of 300 (296130)
03-17-2006 2:25 AM
Reply to: Message 235 by Faith
03-16-2006 8:58 PM


Re: robinrohan the true rationalist?
quote:
What a puzzle. A nihilist who believes in evolution has all the evos on his case while the Biblical fundamentalists are his fans (Iano
and me).
There's no puzzle at all. Robin Rohan, like you, has a closed mind and refuses to accept any possible reconciliation between Christianity and science, even though he cannot defend his position. Why should it be a puzzle that people clinging stubbornly to the same error should agree ? Thus the connection between your views is not rationality, but a shared irrationality.
Even worse for your case your position of placing your personal beliefs above sicnce is not rational and is not shared with Robin. Thus there is no basis for any claim that Biblical Fundamentalism is rational on the basis of this discussion - even without considering the internal irrationality of fundamentalism. That you should make such a claim is irrational in itself, and thus the very assertion is self-defeating.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 235 by Faith, posted 03-16-2006 8:58 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 257 by Faith, posted 03-17-2006 8:55 AM PaulK has replied
 Message 281 by robinrohan, posted 03-18-2006 1:05 AM PaulK has replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 254 of 300 (296131)
03-17-2006 2:32 AM
Reply to: Message 242 by Buzsaw
03-16-2006 10:07 PM


Re: The Epistle of buz
This thread is about evidence that DISPROVES God. According to Robin the evidence is good enough that a rational person should reject the idea that God exists. So really you should be arguing on the same side as Jar, that the evidence is NOT good enough.
This hread is not about evidence FOR God. Thus the claim to have such evidence is off-topic. And claiming to have evidence that you refuse to produce is against the forum rules anyway. Especially when you don't have such evidence - which is the case here. W

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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 263 of 300 (296171)
03-17-2006 9:17 AM
Reply to: Message 257 by Faith
03-17-2006 8:55 AM


Re: robinrohan the true rationalist?
You are wrong to state that I cannot defend my position on the compatibility of Christianity and evolution. Since Robin was unable to successfully rebut my arguments I have successfully defended my position.
You are wrong to label a statement based on direct observation as "irrational".
Both evolution and an Old Earth are scientific conclusions. To say otherwise is to deny the facts. Which further demonstrates that your position is irrational.
And finally if this is a war of assertions it is because that is how you and Robin choose to argue. Having failed ot make your case you simply repeat your assertions as if they had not been successfully rebutted.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by Faith, posted 03-17-2006 8:55 AM Faith has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 266 of 300 (296176)
03-17-2006 9:22 AM
Reply to: Message 258 by iano
03-17-2006 9:00 AM


Re: robinrohan the true rationalist?
quote:
Point being, that Robins grasping of the rational with respect to, for instance, Gods foreknowing the fall not affecting Adams ability to chose, is something (if persistant EvC refusal to grasp it is anything to go by) which would appear to require Gods illumination to get.
I think that this is a great example of the shared irrationality I referred to. It is simply not that Robin's claim is in the slightest bit difficult to grasp. The problem with it is that it is a strawman.
Thus at best it represents a failure to grasp the argument it is supposedly responding to. Hardly evidence of rationality.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 258 by iano, posted 03-17-2006 9:00 AM iano has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 285 of 300 (296428)
03-18-2006 4:48 AM
Reply to: Message 281 by robinrohan
03-18-2006 1:05 AM


Re: robinrohan the true rationalist?
You've demonmstrated your closed mind by your reliance on repeating assertions that have been shown to be indefensible. So yes, I know that your mind is closed because you've proved it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 281 by robinrohan, posted 03-18-2006 1:05 AM robinrohan has not replied

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