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Author Topic:   What evidence absolutely rules out a Creator
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 236 of 300 (296097)
03-16-2006 9:34 PM
Reply to: Message 232 by jar
03-16-2006 7:51 PM


Re: Individual proof?
Jar writes:
Once again, there is no evidence that can either prove or refute a Creator.
We Biblical fundamentalists see lots of evidence for a Creator. I wouldn't go so far as to say you're wilfully ignorant, but I do think that if you were to approach the fulfilled prophecies and a lot more of the Bible literally, like the historical record, you would wake up and smell the Creator's evidence coffee.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 Z Y BUZ SAW

This message is a reply to:
 Message 232 by jar, posted 03-16-2006 7:51 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 237 by jar, posted 03-16-2006 9:37 PM Buzsaw has replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 238 of 300 (296099)
03-16-2006 9:49 PM
Reply to: Message 221 by jar
03-16-2006 6:42 PM


Re: What do you think.
Jar writes:
Humans can never have anything except a belief in GOD. We cannot know for sure and anyone who says that they know for sure is simply fooling themselves.
Those of us who've come to the status of children of the father, Jehovah god and who've come to receive his son Jesus as lord and savior, being born again (from above) by his Holy Spirit have come to know for sure he exists. He reveals himself to those who've come to know him in numerous ways. It's something only his children who've received his son having received his spirit experience. We can't prove it to you, except to point out things like the prophecies et al. I could write a book on just the spectacular answers to prayer I've received over the past 6 decades as a fundamentalist Christian.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 Z Y BUZ SAW

This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by jar, posted 03-16-2006 6:42 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 240 by jar, posted 03-16-2006 9:57 PM Buzsaw has replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 241 of 300 (296102)
03-16-2006 10:01 PM
Reply to: Message 237 by jar
03-16-2006 9:37 PM


Re: Individual proof?
Jar writes:
Humans can never have anything except a belief in GOD. We cannot know for sure and anyone who says that they know for sure is simply fooling themselves.
Again, Jar, my friend, I'm not saying you're being wilfully ignorant, but I've posted a number of Biblical prophecies over the years which you've rejected as such. Your concept of God seems to be some she or it who is incapable of miracle, unlike, him, the Biblical supernatural God.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 Z Y BUZ SAW

This message is a reply to:
 Message 237 by jar, posted 03-16-2006 9:37 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 259 by nator, posted 03-17-2006 9:02 AM Buzsaw has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 242 of 300 (296103)
03-16-2006 10:07 PM
Reply to: Message 240 by jar
03-16-2006 9:57 PM


Re: The Epistle of buz
Jar writes:
But what does it have to do with the thread?
The thread is about evidence of God. Right? I'm saying ones who know him have evidence that unbelievers are not aware of and that unbelievers also have evidence which they reject, such as the prophecies.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 Z Y BUZ SAW

This message is a reply to:
 Message 240 by jar, posted 03-16-2006 9:57 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 244 by jar, posted 03-16-2006 10:17 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 254 by PaulK, posted 03-17-2006 2:32 AM Buzsaw has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 247 of 300 (296114)
03-16-2006 10:43 PM
Reply to: Message 244 by jar
03-16-2006 10:17 PM


Re: The Epistle of buz
Jar writes:
I happen to be a believer and yet every single prophecy you have ever presented has not held up to examination.
The scripture says the devils believe and tremble, so simply saying "I happen to be a believer" doesn't cut it. When you believe most of scripture is fairy tales why should the prophecies or anything else miraculous or supernatural hold up to your examination?

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 Z Y BUZ SAW

This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by jar, posted 03-16-2006 10:17 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 249 by jar, posted 03-16-2006 10:48 PM Buzsaw has replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 250 of 300 (296117)
03-16-2006 10:58 PM
Reply to: Message 249 by jar
03-16-2006 10:48 PM


Re: wandering way OT again buz
Jar, your mind seems to be set, limited to the natural, so another prophecy thread would likely be a waste of time, so far as convincing you of anything you're she/it god does supernaturally.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 Z Y BUZ SAW

This message is a reply to:
 Message 249 by jar, posted 03-16-2006 10:48 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 251 by jar, posted 03-16-2006 11:09 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 255 by ramoss, posted 03-17-2006 8:43 AM Buzsaw has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 270 of 300 (296186)
03-17-2006 9:39 AM
Reply to: Message 267 by nwr
03-17-2006 9:23 AM


Re: robinrohan the true rationalist?
nwr writes:
There is also no way to reconcile it with physics, with geology, or with ordinary common sense.
But we believe ordinary common sense should allow for a supernatural ID creator to do supernatural stuff, not being limited to the perameters of physics as finite and fallible humans understand their limited (abe: physics concepts.
This message has been edited by buzsaw, 03-17-2006 09:42 AM

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 Z Y BUZ SAW

This message is a reply to:
 Message 267 by nwr, posted 03-17-2006 9:23 AM nwr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 271 by nwr, posted 03-17-2006 10:00 AM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 273 by LinearAq, posted 03-17-2006 10:09 AM Buzsaw has replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 276 of 300 (296395)
03-17-2006 9:47 PM
Reply to: Message 273 by LinearAq
03-17-2006 10:09 AM


Re: I agree to an extent
LA writes:
True enough, God should be able to "do supernatural stuff". The problem is that He seems to also erase His tracks.
1. He creates a universe only 6000 years ago but puts things in it that make it look billions of years older.
Whoa! Not all creationists, including not all fundie literalist creationists like myself argue for a young earth.
LA writes:
2. He Floods the entire world but leaves mountains of evidence directly conflicts with what should be there as a consequence of that Flood.
Not if your interpretation of the evidence eliminates the conflicts, at the same time accomodating a ww flood.
LA writes:
3. He provides predictions of the future but when they are borne out they no longer look like predictions.
4. He heals people but only if they are not diagnosed with an ailment first.
I would think He would like to leave definitive tracks so we could follow them to Him. Is their some reason He doesn't?
Nobody has falsified the falsifiable bonafide prophecies and the bonafide healings, though there are cases of the bogus regarding both.
This message has been edited by buzsaw, 03-17-2006 09:50 PM

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 Z Y BUZ SAW

This message is a reply to:
 Message 273 by LinearAq, posted 03-17-2006 10:09 AM LinearAq has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 277 of 300 (296396)
03-17-2006 9:59 PM
Reply to: Message 271 by nwr
03-17-2006 10:00 AM


Re: robinrohan the true rationalist?
nwr writes:
Even if you allow for the possibility of supernatural events, a literalist reading of the Genesis account cannot be reconciled with physics or with common sense.
Why not? For example, in my great debate with Jar many months ago I showed where it satisfies all three TD laws with Jar unable to refute and common sense says that an omnipotent God can create life in a short time without evolutionary process.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 Z Y BUZ SAW

This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by nwr, posted 03-17-2006 10:00 AM nwr has not replied

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