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Author Topic:   Why are literalists literalists?
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 136 of 167 (349290)
09-15-2006 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 134 by Faith
09-15-2006 11:21 AM


Faith writes:
And Galileo had to contend with Aristotle not the Bible.
False. It wasn't Aristotle who imprisoned Galileo. It was the "majority opinion" theologians whom you cite when it suits you and repudiate otherwise. Their "majority opinion" was based on outside sources, not on the Bible - just as yours is.
My point was that you are outnumbered. Your opinion is outnumbered.
Counting noses is meaningless.
Edited by Ringo, : Shpelling.

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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 137 of 167 (349306)
09-15-2006 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 133 by ringo
09-15-2006 11:15 AM


Majority Opinion
The word "fallible" doesn't necessarily imply morality.
It most certainly does in this context.
fallible--prone to error.
fickle--prone to change.
Not the same thing. Now in what way would geocentrism and slavery be an error? Obvoiusly, it's a moral error. And where does such a view come from, that you automatically assumed would prove your point about how fallible majority opinion is?
It comes from the current majority opinion, that's where.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by ringo, posted 09-15-2006 11:15 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by PaulK, posted 09-15-2006 12:52 PM robinrohan has replied
 Message 142 by ringo, posted 09-15-2006 1:13 PM robinrohan has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 138 of 167 (349311)
09-15-2006 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by robinrohan
09-15-2006 12:42 PM


Re: Majority Opinion
Why is it "obvious" to you that geocentrism is a moral error ?

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 139 of 167 (349312)
09-15-2006 12:54 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by PaulK
09-15-2006 12:52 PM


Re: Majority Opinion
Why is it "obvious" to you that geocentrism is a moral error ?
I was saying that Ringo considered it obvious. But of course the main point is slavery.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by PaulK, posted 09-15-2006 12:52 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by PaulK, posted 09-15-2006 1:06 PM robinrohan has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 140 of 167 (349318)
09-15-2006 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by robinrohan
09-15-2006 12:54 PM


Re: Majority Opinion
quote:
I was saying that Ringo considered it obvious.
No, you didn't. You rhetorically asked what sort of error geocentrism would be and answered that it was "obviously" a moral error. In short it seems to me that you were arguing that Ringo had to see it as a moral eror BECAUSE it was "obvious" - to you. I certainly see nothing in Ringo's posts to suggest that he sees geocentrism as a moral error.

This message is a reply to:
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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 141 of 167 (349320)
09-15-2006 1:11 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by PaulK
09-15-2006 1:06 PM


Re: Majority Opinion
No, you didn't. You rhetorically asked what sort of error geocentrism would be and answered that it was "obviously" a moral error. In short it seems to me that you were arguing that Ringo had to see it as a moral eror BECAUSE it was "obvious" - to you. I certainly see nothing in Ringo's posts to suggest that he sees geocentrism as a moral error.
I'm saying he called it an error. What other sort of error could it be than a moral error? He links it with slavery.
Moreover, he takes it for granted that it will be obvious to all that geocentrism and slavery is an overwhelming indictment of majority opinion.
Edited by robinrohan, : changed "it" to "he."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by PaulK, posted 09-15-2006 1:06 PM PaulK has replied

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ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 142 of 167 (349322)
09-15-2006 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by robinrohan
09-15-2006 12:42 PM


Re: Majority Opinion
You're nit-picking about one word. So what if "fallible" wasn't the best choice of words?
The point - if you choose to ever discuss the point - is that the "majority opinion" that Faith is married to is of little value.
It doesn't matter if it's "morally" right or wrong - that's not the issue here. Fallible or fickle or green or fat, the "majority opinion" is just another opinion.

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This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 143 of 167 (349326)
09-15-2006 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by robinrohan
09-15-2006 1:11 PM


Re: Majority Opinion
quote:
I'm saying he called it an error. What other sort of error could it be than a moral error?
An error of fact, of course. I really don't see how it could be anything else. But by asking that question you've confirmed that it IS your idea that it's a moral error.
quote:
He links it with slavery
Because both are cases where majority opinion has changed. Thus showing that majority opinion is not a reliable guide to truth of any sort.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by robinrohan, posted 09-15-2006 1:11 PM robinrohan has replied

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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 144 of 167 (349331)
09-15-2006 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by ringo
09-15-2006 1:13 PM


Re: Majority Opinion
You're nit-picking about one word. So what if "fallible" wasn't the best choice of words?
Okay.

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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 145 of 167 (349340)
09-15-2006 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by PaulK
09-15-2006 1:21 PM


Re: Majority Opinion
An error of fact, of course
Oh, he meant "geocentrism" in the astronomical sense? I was thinking of the other sense of the word.

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 Message 143 by PaulK, posted 09-15-2006 1:21 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 146 of 167 (349342)
09-15-2006 2:51 PM
Reply to: Message 145 by robinrohan
09-15-2006 2:41 PM


Re: Majority Opinion
Faith certainly took it as referring to astronomy - and Ringo didn't correct her interpretation of his words. And what sense of geocentrism represens a moral error sufficient that it should be of special significance, compared with the well-known example of Galileo ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by robinrohan, posted 09-15-2006 2:41 PM robinrohan has replied

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ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 147 of 167 (349349)
09-15-2006 3:15 PM
Reply to: Message 145 by robinrohan
09-15-2006 2:41 PM


Re: Majority Opinion
robinrohan writes:
Oh, he meant "geocentrism" in the astronomical sense? I was thinking of the other sense of the word.
It never occured to me that there was another sense.

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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 148 of 167 (349350)
09-15-2006 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by PaulK
09-15-2006 2:51 PM


Re: Majority Opinion
And what sense of geocentrism represens a moral error sufficient that it should be of special significance, compared with the well-known example of Galileo ?
The astronomical sense of the word might be the more usual sense, but I'm just more used to the other, more loaded, sense, which in an indirect way could relate to slavery. I'm just explaining that the astronomical sense is not what came to my mind, not suggesting here that Ringo's use of it was misleading.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 149 by MangyTiger, posted 09-15-2006 7:58 PM robinrohan has replied
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MangyTiger
Member (Idle past 6354 days)
Posts: 989
From: Leicester, UK
Joined: 07-30-2004


Message 149 of 167 (349462)
09-15-2006 7:58 PM
Reply to: Message 148 by robinrohan
09-15-2006 3:19 PM


Re: Majority Opinion
I'm just more used to the other, more loaded, sense
I don't know what this other sense is - could you explain or give a link please?

Oops! Wrong Planet

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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fallacycop
Member (Idle past 5520 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006


Message 150 of 167 (349570)
09-16-2006 9:41 AM
Reply to: Message 148 by robinrohan
09-15-2006 3:19 PM


Re: Majority Opinion
The astronomical sense of the word might be the more usual sense, but I'm just more used to the other, more loaded, sense, which in an indirect way could relate to slavery.
You keep talking about the 'other' sense of geocentrism as if everybody knew that there is another sense. I never heard of any other sense but the astronomical one. Would you care to explain?

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