Christianity, the Soul, and Brain Damage

This is standard dualist answer #1:If you were invisible and driving a car people would still see the controls move, if you were invisible and the controls were broken people would just see the car driven badly. Thus is it with the soul and the brain.

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But as evidenced by the story above, personality, and behavior are very closely related to a specific organ, the human brain. Damage to the brain causes personality shifts in the world. So if I were brain damaged and became a bad person, is my soul at fault?How does Christianity reconcile the strong physical corelation between mind and behavior? If a few hormones can make think and act different, then how can our immortal soul be held accountable?
______________________________________________________________________Answer to question number 1: The Bible says God is a good Judge. I believe the scenario you raise would result in a favorable judgement.We are held accountable for that in which we are responsible for. A few hormones (as you put it) is departing from "brain damage" and introducing a lessor defect. The answer is that it all depends on the amount of brain damage. God isn't dumb - He knows the truth whether the damage is justified in excusing "the behavior" or if the person in question is not really affected but using a defect to justify behavior in front of man who can be fooled.

Hi Coragyps.I accept the common physical ancestry of human and chimp, so no debate there. Whether chimp consciousness has evolved to the point of moral responsibility or God awareness is another matter. It's certainly interesting to follow the language studies, but then my dog certainly displays rudiments of language and numeric ability (especially when treats are involved Also the Catholic assertion is that the human soul is of non-physical character. Quite admittedly not a scientific belief.As to the original question regarding moral resposibility, Catholicism has always recognized "diminished capacity" as lessenin g or extenuating moral culpability, so I think that would apply to brain damage or chemical alteration that isn't the fault of the person.

Dear Yaro:The question of whether or not personality is resident in the body or the soul is an interesting one, but please allow me to muddle up the water even more.Since the psychological academia is still arguing most profusely on the nature/nurture debate, I guess I can raise the question that personality may, to some degree (and I believe, a large degree at that) be affected by our environment. However, since environment does not seem to change temperaments overnight, it seems logical (I have no evidence for this, I am going by gut instincts here) that the environment around us temporarily changes our attitudes and behaviours, and these short-term changes accumulates in our long- term memory to achieve permanent changes.I will not discuss the possibility of the existence of a "base personality" (that is, the personality of a person whose memory of everything (and I do mean everything) has been erased), but I would like to ask the following question: suppose a person has been tricked and teased by bullies repeatedly and this has led to him/her developing a timid and suspicious personality. If through surgery or accident, those memories were erased, will their personality persist? That is, are personalities but a learnt adaptation to aid social interaction the same way that memory aids survival?Just a thought.

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"Respect is like money, it can only be earned. When it is given, it becomes pittance"

I think that the twin studies have shown that there is a significant amount of "base personality" that is born with you.see "Nature via Nurture" by Matt Ridley for some details that are quite astonishing.

Yaro,re: How does Christianity reconcile the strong physical correlation between mind and behavior? If a few hormones can make think and act different, then how can our immortal soul be held accountable?I’ll have to leave that explanation to the psychologists on the board. I would, however, be interested in knowing why you think someone has an immortal soul.

You should watch the movie Hannibal. Pay close attention to the end.

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The Laminator

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paisano Alright what would you propose is the means by which the physiological processes of human consciousness are other than material in origin and in action?

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"For the mind of man is far from the nature of clear and equal glass,wherein the beams of things should reflect according to their true incidence;nay,it is rather like an enchanted glass,full of superstition and imposture.if it be not delivered and reduced." Sir Francis Bacon

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What really happens to the man with the jack hammer in his head, would only be known by God and himself.

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Question, did he feel trapped in his own body, or did he feel normal?

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Since he was perfectly able to communicate, and from what I have read about him (Phineas Gage, and it was tamping iron that was driven into his brain by an explosion), there is no reason to believe that he thought he was acting any differently that he always had.

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Also, I have witnessed a few miracles of close friends. It is entirely possible that God could have cured him, had the circumstance be right between him and God. Even medical institutions reconize documented miracles.

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Which medical institutions have actually documented miracles, and when?I am positive they have reported unexplained recoveries, but I strongly doubt that they have documented these recoveries as having a divine or supernatural origin.

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I have no abnormalitys that I know of, but yet after I became born again, my whole demeanor changed. People have taken notice of this and say things to me like, you are so lovely now, and patient. Also people have said that I look ten years younger, what have you done to yourself. This is my own testimony that could be taken as a sign of what God can do to a person. Possible offering another hope for that poor guy.

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People's demeanor changes for all sorts of reasons, all the time.I became a much more patient, less judgemental, happier person when I stopped believing in the supernatural.

I can't feel God... no matter how hard I have tried I can't! Should I be held accountable for this? Can I help this? Do I just pretend? Is that the same? What about people born with High levels and low levels of these hormones?(VERY Common) this is why some people are more angry then others... should they be accountable for actions?What about murderers? It has been proven that most murderers have chemical differences in the brain then most other people...Should they be accountable?

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My site The Atheist BibleMy New Debate Fourms!

I'd argue that human consciousness is partly material (brain states) but partly immaterial (some emergent property). As to mechanism, I haven't a clue. (That's why i say this is more handwaving and not rigorous).I would have to be convinced that it was wholly material, however. Or even not quantum mechanical in some sense.If you've evidence of this, please discuss.

Why is an emergent property "immaterial"?The pattern you see on your monitor is only a bunch of individual dots. But the pattern is just as material as the dots that make it up.A cloud doesn't exist as a material thing. All the water vapour that you see "in" it at one moment is blown through and replaced by new water vapour at a later moment. However the cloud is still "real". It is not material in the sense of being made of matter but it is not "supernatural" either.In some months or years all the atoms of your body are replaced. The material "you" is gone. So the "you" both physical form and mind, are not "material" (as in made of atoms) but the pattern that is "you" persists. It is a part of the world and in that different sense "material".Maybe we need to define our terms more precisely. Could you explain your meaning of "material"? It sounds like "immaterial" means super natural (or not natural) in some way.

A clarification of terms may be in order. Let me state at the outset, however, that I freely admit my position on the topic of consciousness is not scientifically rigorous. I am interested in hearing from others who feel they do have a scientifically rigorous position on this topic.As to your example, yes, patterns on the computer screen themselves are as physical as the physical processes which created them. However, the significance of the pattern is a property of interpretation by a conscious observer.Are the concepts that make the pattterns significant, themselves physical ? This is what I am getting at.

First off, Im back!I have been out of town, so I havnt been able to post.Anyway,I dont know. Im not sure, I think there may be some sort of metaphisical component to us all, but I definetly dont think its the christian conception of a sould.I belive that personality, cnsiousness, and behavior all have a very close phisical link to the phisicality of the brain.

Thats an interesting question. Another case study I saw on a documentry once (It was a BBC series on the human mind, fascinating. I wish I remembered the title) was this fellow who got into a car accident and damaged his brain.The area of the brain that was damaged was an area asociated with recognition. Particulararly of patern recognition. And guess what?His ability to recognize, remember, or interpret emotion from, faces was all but gone. He couldent tell if your expression was happy or sad, he couldnt remember your face, even his kids etc. It was like his brain didnt record the order of fetures that make up a face.It was crazy. Anyway, this would tell me that patern recognition, or interpretation has alot to do with the brain as well. What do you think?