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Author Topic:   What is God's Purpose for being?
jar
Member (Idle past 413 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 46 of 75 (150276)
10-16-2004 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by DC85
10-16-2004 11:01 AM


Are you saying that the logic is faulty?
If that's what your saying we can go on to the next step. If you believe the logic I stated in correct, then let's parse that further.
So, logic correct as stated or incorrect?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by DC85, posted 10-16-2004 11:01 AM DC85 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by DC85, posted 10-17-2004 9:03 PM jar has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18296
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 47 of 75 (150290)
10-16-2004 12:28 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by DC85
10-16-2004 12:15 AM


DC85 writes:
Christians claim without a god we have no purpose.
So can I assume without a god of his own God has no purpose?
God needs no purpose. Its like my parents always said when I asked why...."Because I said so."
For the likes of all of us, however, perhaps WE are Gods purpose...after all, He gave His Son for us....and is not a Son representative of a purpose continued?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by DC85, posted 10-16-2004 12:15 AM DC85 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by DC85, posted 10-16-2004 12:40 PM Phat has replied

  
DC85
Member
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 48 of 75 (150291)
10-16-2004 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Phat
10-16-2004 12:28 PM


So why do we need purpose if God doesn't?

My site The Atheist Bible
My New Debate Fourms!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Phat, posted 10-16-2004 12:28 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Phat, posted 10-16-2004 6:07 PM DC85 has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18296
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 49 of 75 (150335)
10-16-2004 6:07 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by DC85
10-16-2004 12:40 PM


So why do we need purpose if God doesn't?
Imagine if you had a rich Daddy who no longer worked. You were 16 and did not want to go to school. He told you that you had to do it. You said, Why do I need to work if YOU don't? What do you think his response would be??

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by DC85, posted 10-16-2004 12:40 PM DC85 has replied

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 Message 50 by DC85, posted 10-17-2004 1:47 AM Phat has replied

  
DC85
Member
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 50 of 75 (150438)
10-17-2004 1:47 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by Phat
10-16-2004 6:07 PM


"I worked for my money it is your turn"
What does this have to do with anything? This is hardly the same question.
Why do we need a purpose for being?
This message has been edited by DC85, 10-17-2004 12:49 AM

My site The Atheist Bible
My New Debate Fourms!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Phat, posted 10-16-2004 6:07 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Phat, posted 10-17-2004 3:55 AM DC85 has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18296
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 51 of 75 (150452)
10-17-2004 3:55 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by DC85
10-17-2004 1:47 AM


DC85 writes:
Why do we need a purpose for being?
To a Christian Theist, God is the Daddy...He needs no purpose except to be God. Our purpose is to fullfill His eternal purpose and destiny that He foreknew from the get go. I suppose that to an atheist or a skeptic, we as humans need no purpose...if you wanna be a bum. Party till ya drop, I guess. As for God, I've never really cared what He does with His daily agenda. Whatever He wants, is all I know.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by DC85, posted 10-17-2004 1:47 AM DC85 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by DC85, posted 10-17-2004 11:21 AM Phat has replied

  
DC85
Member
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 52 of 75 (150484)
10-17-2004 11:21 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by Phat
10-17-2004 3:55 AM


I don't understand why you feel you need a purpose?
quote:
He needs no purpose except to be God.
Why can't we say the same for us? Why do we need a purpose and God does not? Your Logic makes no sense. I am sorry but I am trying to understand you. So far it isn't working. When I was faced with similar questions I began journey toward Atheism.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Phat, posted 10-17-2004 3:55 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by jar, posted 10-17-2004 11:50 AM DC85 has not replied
 Message 54 by Phat, posted 10-17-2004 12:05 PM DC85 has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 413 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 53 of 75 (150488)
10-17-2004 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by DC85
10-17-2004 11:21 AM


Still waiting for an answer to Message 46.
Thanks.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by DC85, posted 10-17-2004 11:21 AM DC85 has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18296
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 54 of 75 (150491)
10-17-2004 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by DC85
10-17-2004 11:21 AM


Whose Purpose is at Our Center?
Hey,DC85...this IS a difficult concept, and all that each of us have is our opinions, beliefs, and conclusions. Lets start with the definition of the word, "purpose".
Websters writes:
1purpose \"pr-ps\ n 1 : an object or result aimed at : intention 2 : resolution, determination purposeful \-fl\ adj purposefully adv purposeless adj purposely adv
2purpose vb purposed; purposing : to propose as an aim to oneself
Keep in mind that my explanation is influenced by my belief paradigm, DC. God has a purpose unto Himself as a proposal to Himself. This makes no sense from a human objective viewpoint but from the viewpoint of an eternally existing Creator it makes perfect sense.
NIV writes:
Prov 19:21=Many are the plans in a man's heart,
but it is the LORD's purpose that prevails.
Isa 46:10= I make known the end from the beginning,
from ancient times, what is still to come.
I say: My purpose will stand...
So what is mans purpose? The so called religious "experts" in the time of Jesus rebelled against the evident authority which Jesus carried with (and within) him.
Luke 7:29-30=(All the people, even the tax collectors, when they heard Jesus' words, acknowledged that God's way was right, because they had been baptized by John. But the Pharisees and experts in the law rejected God's purpose for themselves, because they had not been baptized by John.)
For an atheist, quotations from the Bible to explain the Bible never impresses. Let us turn to the only OTHER source besides the Word of God.....human wisdom. By the way, when I discuss issues pertaining to God and faith with people like you who do not accept the Bible as any more than a fallible book, I am mindful and respectful of the fact that you, like I, wish to learn more. For me, I habitually use Gods Word as a comparitive standard...a yardstick of philosophy, as it were. What do philosophers say about "purpose"?
Wikipedia writes:
Purpose is deliberately thought-through goal-directedness.
According to some philosophies, purpose is central to a good human life. Helen Keller wrote that happiness comes from "fidelity to a worthy purpose", and Ayn Rand wrote that purpose must be one of the three ruling values of human life (the others are reason and self-esteem). Some people think that God assigns purposes to people and that it is their mission to fulfill them. Others say that purposes are freely chosen by individuals, or not chosen, in which case their lives lack meaning. Among these, some say that natural propensities may determine what sorts of purposes a person needs to pursue, but do not guarantee that he or she will pursue them, that being dependent on free choice.
Pursuing a career, raising a family and acquiring property are perhaps the most widespread of long-term purposes that make life meaningful according to such philosophies. Helping the needy is an oft-cited, but less popular example.
I really can't define Gods purpose beyond what one can gather concerning such a thing. I believe that all of us are part of His overall purpose and plan.
DC85 writes:
I don't understand why you feel you need a purpose?
And I can't imagine why anyone would not want one!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by DC85, posted 10-17-2004 11:21 AM DC85 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by DC85, posted 10-17-2004 9:00 PM Phat has replied

  
DC85
Member
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 55 of 75 (150556)
10-17-2004 9:00 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Phat
10-17-2004 12:05 PM


Re: Whose Purpose is at Our Center?
"before" we where created what was God's purpose?

My site The Atheist Bible
My New Debate Fourms!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Phat, posted 10-17-2004 12:05 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by Phat, posted 10-18-2004 5:20 AM DC85 has not replied

  
DC85
Member
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 56 of 75 (150557)
10-17-2004 9:03 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by jar
10-16-2004 11:08 AM


I don't think it is... It doesn't connect for me. please explain

My site The Atheist Bible
My New Debate Fourms!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by jar, posted 10-16-2004 11:08 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by jar, posted 10-17-2004 9:17 PM DC85 has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 413 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 57 of 75 (150560)
10-17-2004 9:17 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by DC85
10-17-2004 9:03 PM


Okay, so saying that a two year old requires external purpose does not mean that adults require external purpose.
Agreed so far?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by DC85, posted 10-17-2004 9:03 PM DC85 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by DC85, posted 10-17-2004 9:34 PM jar has replied

  
DC85
Member
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 58 of 75 (150561)
10-17-2004 9:34 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by jar
10-17-2004 9:17 PM


No the 2 year old doesn't need purpose either...

My site The Atheist Bible
My New Debate Fourms!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by jar, posted 10-17-2004 9:17 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by mike the wiz, posted 10-17-2004 9:39 PM DC85 has replied
 Message 60 by jar, posted 10-17-2004 9:45 PM DC85 has replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4755
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 59 of 75 (150562)
10-17-2004 9:39 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by DC85
10-17-2004 9:34 PM


If there is no purpose - why would anything come about?
Why would anything happen? Wouldn't it just not?
I mean - a 2 year old does have purpose - and these dangerous unbelieving teachings are wrongful!
I mean - Can I now go out and rape/murder because no body has purpose and I can basically do what I want because all that matters is my gratification?
Why does my body function? Why should it purposefully pump blood around my veins in a system?
Why should anything happen - if there is no purpose - wouldn't it not bother?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by DC85, posted 10-17-2004 9:34 PM DC85 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by DC85, posted 10-17-2004 10:56 PM mike the wiz has not replied
 Message 69 by Taqless, posted 10-18-2004 1:11 PM mike the wiz has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 413 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 60 of 75 (150565)
10-17-2004 9:45 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by DC85
10-17-2004 9:34 PM


That's not what I said.
I said, for a child to have purpose it must come from outside. It comes from parents.
I believe that you agreed with that.
You also agreed that it does not mean that the parents had to get their purpose from an external source.
So far so good?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by DC85, posted 10-17-2004 9:34 PM DC85 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by DC85, posted 10-17-2004 10:58 PM jar has replied

  
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