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Author Topic:   soul of fundamentalism
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 106 of 135 (193672)
03-23-2005 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 105 by Phat
03-23-2005 10:27 AM


Re: Add Nothing to the sacred Scriptures!
The question is this: What is/was the original meaning, intent, and expected target audience?
A very, very good question.
Is there any difference between two forms of communication, one a letter sent to you and the other a message posted here at EvC?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Phat, posted 03-23-2005 10:27 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by Phat, posted 03-23-2005 3:46 PM jar has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 107 of 135 (193712)
03-23-2005 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by jar
03-23-2005 11:13 AM


Re: Add Nothing to the sacred Scriptures!
Jar writes:
Is there any difference between two forms of communication, one a letter sent to you and the other a message posted here at EvC?
Ordinarily, yes. If both communications become public, however, the question would be whether the letter was intended to be used for public edification or whether it was to be addressed and understood in a limited and private context.
Are you suggesting that Pauls letters from jail were never intended by the author to become a widely published book?
And then there is the question of who the author really is.
"Who wrote that?"
"Christ in me."
Yeah? Tell it to the judge!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by jar, posted 03-23-2005 11:13 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by jar, posted 03-23-2005 4:54 PM Phat has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 108 of 135 (193724)
03-23-2005 4:54 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by Phat
03-23-2005 3:46 PM


Re: Add Nothing to the sacred Scriptures!
If both communications become public, however, the question would be whether the letter was intended to be used for public edification or whether it was to be addressed and understood in a limited and private context.
I don't think there would be much question on that. If it was addressed to you, it was meant for you.
That does not mean that others might not benefit from reading a private comminication. We often find that letters from an individual can help understand an issue, a time, or a culture.
Are you suggesting that Pauls letters from jail were never intended by the author to become a widely published book?
No, not suggesting. I think it quite clear that all of Paul's Epistles were personal communications between Paul and either an individual or specific communion. For example, Romans was written to the Christians in Rome;
1: Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
2: (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
3: Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
4: And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
5: By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
6: Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
7: To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
The Epistles are just as they are named, letters. They are not general broadsides like the Gospels or Historical summaries like Acts.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Phat, posted 03-23-2005 3:46 PM Phat has not replied

  
Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1240 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 109 of 135 (196148)
04-01-2005 11:10 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by jar
03-13-2005 4:34 PM


Re: Maybe getting way off topic... but
There are reasons* to why I'm approaching your theory skeptically because there are many cultural evidences that are logical in regards to a literal belief, I will explain myself further and I'm interested in the buzz charlies been talking about.
*typo
This message has been edited by chris porcelain, 04-01-2005 11:11 PM

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Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1240 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 110 of 135 (196263)
04-02-2005 5:54 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by jar
03-13-2005 4:34 PM


Re: Maybe getting way off topic... but
quote:
'I and the Father are one." Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?" "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.
this passage troubles me because a people that would take their God that seriously, why would they question the scripture that* is their tradition, their culture, their family tree and their livelyhood? The means by which a common Israelite would question their forefathers and their God has yet to be seen either.
I mean if they were seeing men heal the sick and restore the blind's sight then why would they have doubts about their God destroying a town?
This message has been edited by messenjaH of oNe, 04-02-2005 05:56 PM
This message has been edited by messenjaH of oNe, 04-02-2005 05:57 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by jar, posted 03-13-2005 4:34 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by jar, posted 04-02-2005 7:05 PM Trump won has replied
 Message 112 by Nighttrain, posted 04-02-2005 7:53 PM Trump won has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 111 of 135 (196276)
04-02-2005 7:05 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by Trump won
04-02-2005 5:54 PM


Back to John again I see.
You have to remember that there is nothing even similar to that passage outside John. In fact, much of John seems designed to place the Jews in as bad a light as possible.
This is one of those passages. The incident, even though you might think something like this might be noted, is not mentioned anywhere else. In addition, it stands in stark contrast to how everything is shown in EVERY other book of the New Testament.
But even considering all of that, I don't see where you get your interpretation. In this passage I don't see any signs of the protagonists taking GOD seriously, but rather their prerogatives and prejudices. It's not that they take GOD seriously but rather they see man as restricted.
But the question was on how Jesus took the passges and there, every indication is that he used the stories just as he did the tale of the houses, the good steward or the prodigal son.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Trump won, posted 04-02-2005 5:54 PM Trump won has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by Trump won, posted 04-02-2005 7:55 PM jar has replied

  
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3994 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 112 of 135 (196281)
04-02-2005 7:53 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by Trump won
04-02-2005 5:54 PM


Re: Maybe getting way off topic... but
Hi, M1, you have to realise the foment that was occuring through the region during those times. Many small groups were pushing their agenda, magic healers and messianic pretenders were trying to develop followers, the occupying power may even have been playing groups against each other. Along comes Jesus with a different message and outrageous claims. Did the stoners actually witness the miracles? Were there ANY miracles?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Trump won, posted 04-02-2005 5:54 PM Trump won has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by Trump won, posted 04-02-2005 7:58 PM Nighttrain has not replied

  
Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1240 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 113 of 135 (196282)
04-02-2005 7:55 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by jar
04-02-2005 7:05 PM


Re: Back to John again I see.
quote:
You have to remember that there is nothing even similar to that passage outside John. In fact, much of John seems designed to place the Jews in as bad a light as possible.
what about matthew 27:24-25
Did Abraham Isaac and Jacob exist?
"You are in error because you do not know the scriptures or the power of God"matt21:29

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by jar, posted 04-02-2005 7:05 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by jar, posted 04-03-2005 10:32 AM Trump won has replied

  
Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1240 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 114 of 135 (196283)
04-02-2005 7:58 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by Nighttrain
04-02-2005 7:53 PM


Re: Maybe getting way off topic... but
Well throughout the new testament it says Jesus performs miracles.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Nighttrain, posted 04-02-2005 7:53 PM Nighttrain has not replied

  
Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1240 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 115 of 135 (196296)
04-02-2005 8:29 PM


Message from MessenJAH of ONE
When it comes down to it you either are comfortable in believing that your religion has no history that the prophets could have been uneducated saying filler statements that Jesus would scare people equipped with the only history they knew ready to speak about 2nd comings and morals and ethics and this God that was written about in this scriptures as the God of ABRAHAM MOSES DAVID SOLOMON ISAIAH EZEKIEL and some people could be comfortable in accepting that none of these people never existed.
That God never helped this guy named Moses out and did some bad things to the Egyptians for no good reason.
That God's people never had a rich history and that they made up these fantastical stories to give pride to their culture.
That there is a creator A GOD, people don't realize the emphasis of this statement A GOD, they think they see it you can’t see it, how can you explain something that made your little miniscule self with limited mobility of the mind.
This creator likes you, he sees himself in you, he loves your imperfections and gives you ways of being perfect so you can see him!
The only reason to why I’m holding this conversation is because I’m perplexed at a Christian that thinks a God would be okay with telling fibs and putting fantastical stories in the minds of men that potentially show an imperfect human, not a God and he would be okay, to come back as a human and use these human, THESE HUMAN STORIES, these accounts that could villianize him, make him look horrible, make him be human(look at Job) God would be okay to come back and use these phony stories to teach his beloved people?
CAN YOU BELIEVE A GOD WOULD RESPECT A STORY MADE BY MAN ABOUT HIS QUALITIES? HE WOULD INSTRUCT PEOPLE TO READ IT. HE WOULD BE TEMPTED BY THIS ENTITY THAT COULD POSSIBLY BE A PART OF HIMSELF BUT COULDNT BECAUSE THIS NASTY THING IS WORLDLY AND OFFERS NOTHING BUT MEN AND THEIR SWEAT, MAN'S GLORY? CHRIST USED SCRIPTURE TO COMBAT SATAN, WHY WOULD HE? WHAT IS MANS GLORY TO A GOD? WHAT IS MANS WRITING TO GOD IF IT IS FLAWED IF IT IS NOT BEAUTIFUL IF IT IS NOT TRUE.
I CAN’T SEE A GOD THAT RESPECTS WIVES TALES, CREATED IN THE PRETENSE TO SCARE PEOPLE, IS THAT NOT TRUE?
WHY WOULD A WRITER WRITE A STORY OF GODS WRATH THATS NOT TRUE?
Think about it !The only reason could be to scare the people. That’s a human tactic, this stupid tactic that’s an imperfect tactic that writing doesn’t belong in the kingdom of God.
It is not real? It is simply a fictitious story, what is the point?
edit:I added a few punctuation marks, thanks phat for fixing it up
This life is so real and a God that is so real is accompanied with this life
This message has been edited by AdminPhat, 04-03-2005 02:43 AM
This message has been edited by chris porcelain, 04-03-2005 10:58 AM

im going to find it soon

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by jar, posted 04-03-2005 10:35 AM Trump won has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 116 of 135 (196387)
04-03-2005 10:32 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by Trump won
04-02-2005 7:55 PM


Re: Back to John again I see.
what about matthew 27:24-25
What possible relationship does that have?
Did Abraham Isaac and Jacob exist?
As individuals? Don't know. It's possible they existed as individuals but more likely as composites. We're having an interesting discussion related to them in Message 1. Come on over.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by Trump won, posted 04-02-2005 7:55 PM Trump won has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by Trump won, posted 04-03-2005 11:29 AM jar has not replied
 Message 120 by Trump won, posted 04-03-2005 11:41 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 117 of 135 (196391)
04-03-2005 10:35 AM
Reply to: Message 115 by Trump won
04-02-2005 8:29 PM


Re: Message from MessenJAH of ONE
God is NOT the Bible.
The Bible is NOT GOD.
The Map is NOT the Territory.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by Trump won, posted 04-02-2005 8:29 PM Trump won has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by Trump won, posted 04-03-2005 11:31 AM jar has not replied

  
Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1240 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 118 of 135 (196403)
04-03-2005 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 116 by jar
04-03-2005 10:32 AM


Re: Back to John again I see.
k

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by jar, posted 04-03-2005 10:32 AM jar has not replied

  
Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1240 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 119 of 135 (196404)
04-03-2005 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 117 by jar
04-03-2005 10:35 AM


Re: Message from MessenJAH of ONE
Yeagh but the God of Jesus is the God of Abraham, the God of Jesus is the God of the scripture of the OT.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by jar, posted 04-03-2005 10:35 AM jar has not replied

  
Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1240 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 120 of 135 (196406)
04-03-2005 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 116 by jar
04-03-2005 10:32 AM


Re: Back to John again I see.
quote:
What possible relationship does that have?
An anti-semitic painting of the ppl, just like in John when they try to stone Christ
quote:
As individuals? Don't know. It's possible they existed as individuals but more likely as composites.
Why would Jesus follow the God of nothing. Of a fake history?
This message has been edited by chris porcelain, 04-03-2005 10:43 AM

im going to find it soon

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by jar, posted 04-03-2005 10:32 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by jar, posted 04-03-2005 11:56 AM Trump won has replied

  
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